"Cap-and-Traitor" versus "General Betrayus"

Reader Comments

Jun 29, 2009

Mark, I think a reasonable person can see a distinction between the two in that the honorable General Petraeus was faithfully leading CENTCOM in an ongoing conflict sanctioned by the legislatures that had condemned him. What MoveOn was implicitely demanding was that the general refuse his orders. In order to not "betray us", I assume he must have either stepped down, or perhaps even lead a military coup against Washington for sanctioning a war MoveOn deemed "illegal" on some criterion. As for the eight congressmen, "stabbing in the back" comrades in a political vote is a far less serious charge. Loyalty to the house minority leader, at least, can reasonably be questioned. However, such a loyalty would be far less sacred than the oath of a military officier, and I think a reasonable person call therefore see it as "within the line".

Jun 29, 2009

Whereas a "betrayal" by General Petraeus implies betrayal of the United States of America, the RINOs are "traitors" to the conservative cause. Come on, Mark. There is a bright-line difference between suggesting someone is a traitor to a partisan cause and the implication that someone--in this instance, a diligent, faithful, and true Army General--has betrayed his country. You can fairly say that they went too far and leave it to your readers to agree or disagree, but your comparison of these comments to the ugly treatment of General Petraeus is ridiculous.

Jun 30, 2009

as far as i am concerned all 218 congress people who voted for the largest tax in history are all traitors man made climate change is a cult for the socialists to destroy our freedom

Jun 30, 2009

Hmmm, to me when you are elected to represent your constituents and you instead decide to betray their trust and the responsibility they have delegated to you - you are a traitor. The US Government system is that of representation and built on the theme of "no taxation without representation"; everyone who voted against the majority of their constituents wishes sold out the US system of representation and sold out the people. Again, sounds like a traitor to me - especially when they "traded" your right to representation for a meeting with Botox Nan so they could get some favors.

Jun 30, 2009

Mark, you didn't do real well at "One of these things is not like the others", did you?

Jun 30, 2009

That is just a humorous term to express disagreement with the morons who voted for a bill that will hurt America.

Jun 30, 2009

Nope. Sorry, Mr. Tapscott. A vote to destroy the entire United States economy qualifies for the word "Traitor." Since these eight also claim to be Republicans, they also qualify for "Lying sack of S**T," "Dumba**," and "Useful Idiot." The "General Betrayus" ad from Moron.org was a lie, pure and simple.

Jun 30, 2009

If destroying the country does not deserve the distinction of being called a traitor nothing ever will! And that is the goal of this bill.

Jun 30, 2009

Hmmm, no mention of the left calling the Republicans that voted against Cap and Tax traitors.

Jun 30, 2009

It is a betrayal of the national trust. Taking action to approval a bill -- not even read -- that will damage the prosperity of the American people is treasonous. And with the health care debacle coming, we know we can't trust them to use good judgment. They should have the good graces to fall on their swords...literally.

Jun 30, 2009

Thanks for playing Mark, come back when you really understand politics and party unity.

Jun 30, 2009

Anytime you willfully and maliciously compromise the American economy, you are compromising national security in the long run. So not only did the GOP Cap and Traitors betray the partisan cause, they betrayed this country like all the other Congress-critters, the Fed and the Bush-Obama administration. They should be subject to the maximum punishment allowed by the law.

Jun 30, 2009

I see a big difference between Betrayus and Cap-and-Traitor. Frankly I'm sick of the "let's tone it down guys" Republican policemen who show up constantly and help to take the focus off of the ruinous policies that are being stuffed down our throats. I'm not going to tone it down and I let my congressman Kirk know about it in no uncertain terms. I don't care what you want to call these guys who crossed over and helped to give Obama a victory, if traitor is too strong for you, pick your own name, it doesn't matter because it's a distraction that the media will pick up on before you know it we'll have David Frum or Colin Powell on the Sunday talk shows wringing their hands about party divisiveness to the delight of the MSM.

Jun 30, 2009

From Dictionary.com traitor - 6 dictionary results trai⋅tor  /ˈtreɪtər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [trey-ter] –noun 1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.

Jun 30, 2009

Maybe you should get a job working with your hands since your understanding of the nuances of language seem to be beyond your grasp.

Jun 30, 2009

Mark -- you're way into the weeds here. The 8 Republicans who voted for cap & trade violated Republican first principles, i.e. being for less government, lower taxes, more individual responsibility and liberty. They are 'traitors' to the Republican party just as much as Spector, Snowe and Collins are traitors when they voted for the Stimulus. The Moveon.org smear against General Petraeus was an ungrounded attack. Apples and cowdung -- they can't be compared.

Jun 30, 2009

Sorry, I don't agree. I think that all of the congressmen who voted for a bill that they did not read, but knew that the effect of the bill would do great harm to the economy and, in turn, national security are indeed traitors in the truest sense of the word. They are traitors to the ideals this country was founded on not to mention that most of the stuff that I have heard about is flat out UNCONSTITUTIONAL. So yes - they have betrayed their oath of office and the country. Sounds like a traitor to me.

Jun 30, 2009

Well, let's see... they voted to restrict the manufacturing capability of the United States in what is supposed to solve a *global* issue, thus leaving other countries un-affected by the same burdens, handing them a competitive advantage. General Petraeus, on the other hand, is a hero.

Jun 30, 2009

Statesman is someone interested in the next gereration whereas a politition is someone interested in the next election.Those are not words thought by me...but remembered.We have far too many people in Washington interested in representing themselves or unions rather then us and they are in every state.We have now an adminstration interested in it's own agenda... porkulus without anyone reading it,cap & trade again without anyone reading it and health care... will mean rationing. If you have MS, Cancer, DM the cost will be too much to treat you and God forbid your baby should be born premature.Well Mr.Tapscott when there are representives voting the adminstration line and selling out our country by doing so I consider them traitors of the worst kind because they do it repeatly.

Jun 30, 2009

What makes you an expert on the long term damage this terrible legislation will bring on our economy? Moreover, they voted on a 1300 page bill they never read.....that's both unconstitutional and a form of treason if this bill crushes our economy and weakens our national security in the process.

Jun 30, 2009

According to Merriam-Webster: Traitor 1 : one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty 2 : one who commits treason So the 8 WOULD qualify for the title based on #1, methinks...

Jun 30, 2009

Gee Mark, I tried coming up with a snyomym that might make you happy: betrayer, miscreant, quisling, snake, sneak, snitch, spy, stool pigeon, turncoat, back-stabber, double-crosser, treasonist. Somehow I think traitor works best for me.

Jun 30, 2009

In a candid moment, Boehner called the bill "a pile of sh*t". How long before the hand-wringers appear on this one?

Jun 30, 2009

"We're angry and lashing out." That's the best reason I can devise. It's past the time when reasoned expressions of position and explanations of scientific reasoning misused by the left are effective. It's time to be as mean, selfish and nasty as liberals to emphasize that we believe fervently (that's a lot deeper than "strongly"} that the leftists are reducing our America to something far less than we have known it to be. We are really, really frustrated, angry, dismayed and afraid of the nonsense occurring in the halls of Congress and the bowels of the White House. This is NOT ineptitude that the Democrats are displaying, it's venality and love of power rather than love of country. How can kowtowing to junk science and tax increases to further the leftist agenda be anything but traitorous?

Jun 30, 2009

If you accept the party endorsment and then go against what your party is taking a stand on then yes, you are a traitor to your party. Is that to hard for you to understand?

Jun 30, 2009

How about just calling them, "Stupid", would that be better?

Jun 30, 2009

Dear Mark, Merriam-Webster has 2 definitions of "traitor": 1) One who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty. 2) One who commits treason. Certainly the 8 Republicans meet the first definition in that they betrayed the trust we Republicans placed in them to uphold the party platform of low taxes and small government. So, therefore, by definition they are traitors and we will call them that until the day we are rid of them.

Jun 30, 2009

Traitors!

Jun 30, 2009

And I guess you would fail to see the difference between aborting a human child and squashing a cockroach, right, Mark?

Jun 30, 2009

Petraeus was performing his duty as directed by his president. He was not ruining his country. The cap and traitors did not listen to the overwhelming calls coming into their offices (20-1) against Cap and Trade. They betrayed their constituents, and their party, and their country. They acted for the ruin of this great nation. C'mon, Mark. We expect better of you.

Jun 30, 2009

When you sell out your country, your a traitor. Cap and trade sells out America, they are traitors to the highest degree.

Jun 30, 2009

A little critical thinking, sir. Calling someone a traitor of conservatism and of your constituents is not the same as calling him a traitor of the country.

Jun 30, 2009

First, traitor is an appropriate term - traitor to their party, traitor to their (supposed) principles as Republicans. Taitor to their country is a stretch, though not a very long one. I think the word would never have been used if it had not so sublimely replaced the "trade" in the bill's nickname. Lance of NJ is my guy, and I will actively work against his re-election! He spent years in the NJ Senate and I think everyone knows the condition our state now. No more career, can't we all just get along, moderate RINO's!

Jun 30, 2009

We call "cap and traitors" because most sites won't let us post what we really think of the scum. Cap and Traitors is as good as it gets. I know at least two voted from self interest, Kirk, who wants to be senator and cannot win as a republican but maybe as a RINO, and McHugh McHugh (R-NY) was selected by Obama as Secretary of the Army. It should be noted that McHugh's 23rd district includes the far northern, mostly rural, regions pf upstate New York. This sprawling area includes Fort Drum, home of the 10th Mountain Division. With New York slated to lose at least one congressional district in the next round of redistricting, the 23rd may cease to exist as a political entity in a few years. Both voted from political self interest and not for their country or party so...at the very best, they are traitors. I would bet every one of them was bought or made a similar self serving political calculation.

Jun 30, 2009

"The word "traitor" has specific reference to national loyalty. Benedict Arnold was a traitor," AlGore=Benedict Arnold

Jun 30, 2009

I don't care about what label they are assigned as long as they are shown the door when next they face re-election.

Jun 30, 2009

OUCH! What kind of reasoning is this? Because the word "traitor" in one context means traitor to your country, that somehow curiously negates all other contexts the word could be used in? Fascinating logic, but I'm going to have to pass. I guess Tapscott has never heard of the phrase "traitor to the cause." It really is beyond the pale when educated, adult journalists are coming out with piffle like this.

Jun 30, 2009

Mark, with this article, you are an asshat. The word "traitor" does NOT necessarily imply national issues - it simply indicates one who has betrayed some level of someone or some group's trust. The eight representatives in question - arguably - fall into this definition quite well, so far as one can argue that those of you who are still in the GOP, trusted them to exhibit conservative, or at least, Republican, values. The 'left' used the argument against General Petraeus in the context of national issues, and were roundly -- and rightly -- criticized for doing so. Accusing the notorious eight of betraying the trust of the GOP is entirely appropriate, since -- again, arguably -- that is exactly what they did. Next time, check a dictionary before you embarrass yourself in print.

Jun 30, 2009

You should consult your dictionary, as your definition of 'traitor' is one of several. An editor should know better!!

Jun 30, 2009

As perhaps the person to first to coin this phrase and buy the domain, http://www.capandtr8tors.com immediately after the vote, I pondered these points and determined that they WERE traitors to their fellow republicans.

Jun 30, 2009

I respect you, but ask yourself this Mark: How would a communist, anti-American KGB officer vote on this bill if he were given a vote? Answer: he would have voted FOR the bill because he knows it will ruin us, thus it's fair that we are "discrediting them(RINOs) and making them objects of disgust, hatred and villification." I believe you've breathed in a little bit too much MSM dust now that your an "official" journalist.

Jun 30, 2009

I think that anyone who votes for a bill that will destroy industry in America in return for goodies from Pelosi has, in fact, betrayed their Party, their constituents and their Country. The Obama administration is well on its way to make America a third-world country and RINOs like Mark Kirk are doing nothing to block him.

Jun 30, 2009

Is Tapscott a knave or a fool? Mark, are you really so clueless that you can't see the difference between the suggestion that a respected General has betrayed his country, and the allegation that a politician has betrayed the principles of his party? To refer to the 8 republicans as "cap and traitors" is not to suggest that they have commited treason against America or even that they are not sincere patriots, but rather to make the point that they have sold out the republican party and the conservatives who voted for them. It's hard to believe that you're really not smart enough to see that. Or do you have another agenda?

Jun 30, 2009

Sorry and a little sad to see so many commenters defending the "traitor" term Tapscott is calling out. Clearly, a vote on a House Bill is not an actor of treason, and I have not used that type of language. On the other hand, I have used this type of language: butt-sniffing leftists; economic illiterates; RINOs; and douchenozzles. I suspect "traitor" is simply an epithet, and refers to party status, and not national loyalty. Don't be so literal, Mark.

Jun 30, 2009

Oops- another squishy "conservative" pundit gettin' it WRONG again.

Jun 30, 2009

OK, I'll concede to a point. I'm not big on hyperbole. So what do you prefer to call them?

Jun 30, 2009

Mr. Tapscott: Good point - we certainly don't want to stoop so low as to call people names like "traitor" for the reasons that you've noted. However, can we can just call these folks what they are - not Republicans? How else can you explain someone voting for a bill like this?

Jun 30, 2009

Is this really an "adult" asking this question? A man who has faithfully, honorably and most admirally served his country being called a traitor is compared to a bunch of lawyers in the most exclusive club in the country voting on an issue so obviously undecided nevertheless being rammed through congress without having been seriously debated and examined. My god what an asinine argument!

Jun 30, 2009

1. General Petraeus didn't do anything wrong, lefties hate the Army in general and anything having anything to do with Bush. 2. "Cap an Traitors" are saying one thing and doing another. They campaign one way, and do the opposite. 3. Leftists accused Petraeus of betraying the country, conservatives are accusing the cap an traitors as having betrayed conservative on conservative issues. 4. I think you are looking way beyond the mark.

Jun 30, 2009

A madman is rushing toward you with a gun. Quick! Throw a dictionary at him!!!

Jun 30, 2009

You said: Saul Alinsky, President Obama's inspiration, would see both terms as illustrations of his principle of isolating opponents, discrediting them and making them objects of disgust, hatred and villification. Let's leave that to the Left. We have left that to the left. Look where it's gotten us.

Jun 30, 2009

Here's the definition of Traitor: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/traitor For Cap and Traitors, they are applying definition #1.

Jun 30, 2009

We are use to Democrats doing whatever they or their handlers(soros, acorn etc.) want regardless of there constituents desires. Republicans oddly enough still have some expectation of integrity from their elected government employees. Maybe these politicians are doing exactly what the people that voted them in want....I doubt it. More important is that once again the coastal self anointed elites are dragging the rest of us threw the mess they create and we don't like being forced into the ghastly coastal value system or life style. Worse yet as they destroy their life style and local economy they vacate and move to our states. Look what happened to Florida in the 80's and 90's. It's nothing more than NY south and like that's a good thing?

Jun 30, 2009

Good column. Nasty name-calling doesn't do much to advance the cause of reason. Its main effect is to make us look just as low as those we criticize. Of course, many of our politicians have lately been making such awful decisions, sometimes they just push one over the edge.....

Jun 30, 2009

"I would simply ask my critics to show me one example of Ronald Reagan calling a single one of his opponents traitors." Can do. 1964, after Goldwater lost and "moderates" tried to take over the party... http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,199339,00.html 'When Goldwater lost, Reagan blamed the debacle on party "traitors."' http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.1019/article_detail.asp Ronald Reagan: "We don't intend to turn the Republican Party over to the traitors in the battle just ended. We will have no more of those candidates who are pledged to the same goals of our opposition and who seek our support. Turning the party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all." So, did he think moderates were traitors to the country, or just traitors to the Republican party and conservatism? Weird, the thought RINO Moderates were ... um... traitors? That's gonna leave a mark.

Jun 30, 2009

I agree with so many of the above comments ExpressoBold and Bucktowndusty. say it well as do many others. My comments are that, we need to take our country back. I called and emailed many representatives, including the 8 prior to the actual vote. It didn't help. I can't campaign against them next election but I have friends who can. My own representative voted "no". I thanked her. I emailed all the reps in my state who voted yes. I can help campaign against them next election. It is totally irresponsible to vote yes on a bill that hasn't been read.(as has been done on every bill in this administration) We MUST let them know we aren't going to take this and they'd best get back to the Constitution. I think we have more than 8 traitors in our midst. We also have media that is not being honest with us.

Jun 30, 2009

White man speak from forked tongue. You sir, are a boil on journalists' butts. I bet you were so giddy, during the "Betrayus" crap, that you spanked your little pink puppy hard.

Jun 30, 2009

Hornets nest indeed. Sorry if we are brusing your elite and delicate sensibilities with our oh-so immoderate speech. Yours is the typical response by the conservative so-called leaders and pundits. Somebody or some institution completely trashes a conservative person or conservative values and instead of supporting those of us who try to fight back, you admonish us for not being "nice" enough or moderate enough or using the wrong words. Then when people call you on it, you resort to asking if Ronald Reagan would do it. As Ronald Reagan happens to be dead, who knows what Ronald Reagan would do when 8 legislators with (R) by their names help Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats vote for a freedom-crushing, job-crushing, and tax-crushing bill they didn't even read. I do know he would not be shaking a nanny finger at those of us who call them traitors. Traitors they are, traitors they shall remain, and I for one do not apologize for calling them traitors.

Jun 30, 2009

"I would simply ask my critics to show me one example of Ronald Reagan calling a single one of his opponents traitors." Mark, without taking a side in this argument, do you think that is the best challenge to issue? Why not claim that Hitler wasn't responsible for the Holocaust if readers cannot prove he executed at least one jew personally? No more nicey-nice with liberals (or their enablers).

Jun 30, 2009

"I would simply ask my critics to show me one example of Ronald Reagan calling a single one of his opponents traitors." Mark, without taking a side in this argument, do you think that is the best challenge to issue? Why not claim that Hitler wasn't responsible for the Holocaust if readers cannot prove he executed at least one jew personally? No more nicey-nice with liberals (or their enablers).

Jun 30, 2009

Won't call them traitors, but democrats pretty much called republicans who voted against it traitors. so a little reciprocity would be nice.

Jun 30, 2009

Won't call them traitors, but democrats pretty much called republicans who voted against it traitors. so a little reciprocity would be nice.

Jun 30, 2009

"I would simply ask my critics to show me one example of Ronald Reagan calling a single one of his opponents traitors." Already been done, lad. That you now keep desperately pushing the goalposts firther back only displays and highlights your extreme embarassment at your the faulty reasoning in this article.

Jun 30, 2009

"I would simply ask my critics to show me one example of Ronald Reagan calling a single one of his opponents traitors." Already been done, lad. That you now keep desperately pushing the goalposts firther back only displays and highlights your extreme embarassment at your the faulty reasoning in this article.

Jun 30, 2009

They're certainly traitors to their party. And considering China's military policy-generating colonels have scheduled their plan to kick the U.S. out of East Asia as between 2008-2012, then yes, it is treason to weaken the U.S. vs. China, as this unconstitutional (and yes it certainly is unconstitutional in dozens of ways) law does. It also happens to be slavery, just cause for rebellion in the old fashioned non-rhetorical form.

Jun 30, 2009

They're certainly traitors to their party. And considering China's military policy-generating colonels have scheduled their plan to kick the U.S. out of East Asia as between 2008-2012, then yes, it is treason to weaken the U.S. vs. China, as this unconstitutional (and yes it certainly is unconstitutional in dozens of ways) law does. It also happens to be slavery, just cause for rebellion in the old fashioned non-rhetorical form.

Jun 30, 2009

You need us to school you in history? You should know better than to ask a question for which you do not already know the answer. Perhaps you can help us understand how this "Cap-n-trade" framework enables USA to be a world leader at anything other than lunacy.

Jun 30, 2009

So, if it is wrong for opponents of cap & defraud to call supporters traitors, is it wrong for Paul Krugman to call opponents traitors to the planet?

Jun 30, 2009

I would not use the term, and I think it is rather juvenille ,as it was when Paul Krugman used it to describe those who voted against the bill. Commenters are too frequently over the top on both sides of the aisle and too much effort is spent on ad hominem attacks. ...that said, there is a difference between blog commenters making outlandish comments like these, and administration insiders and significant political groups crafting messages such as those that were aimed at General Petraeus.

Jun 30, 2009

Someone can be a traitor to a cause. The 8 Republicans certainly could be accused of being traitors to free enterprise. As others have noted Krugman called people who voted against the bill traitors to the planet.

Jun 30, 2009

PowerLifter Reagan DID use the traitor word. Check GekkoBear above. Like Judas, those with the "R" sold out for 30 pieces of silver from environmental companies who contributed to their campaigns.

Jun 30, 2009

Hey, Jeb Bush said it; it's time to put Reagan behind us. I now see that as meaning it's time to take off the gloves and dispense with the pleasantries because the left sure has. In case you haven't noticed, the liberal/socialist Democrat party has a super majority and unless conservatives (yeah, Republicans too) wake up, grow a set and start playing hardball this country is heading for a world of hurt because those guys are going to ram every piece of fetid socialistic legislation they can down this country's throat. They certainly aren't holding out an olive branch and working with conservatives or anyone else who doesn't agree with them so I see absolutely no need to play kissy face. Put away the "I'm above that" attitude and jump in the pit because it's on. Flame on Johnny, it's time to fight fire with fire so get on board and fight these guys instead of other conservatives or get the hell out of the way.

Jul 1, 2009

Marky, Sweety Baby, Honeypie!!! They do amount to traitors, pumkin. When you pass this type of legislation. While knowing that a nation busting healthcare plan is next on the agenda. At the same time knowing that the economy is already tanked and the huge amount of money spent to "stimulate", is going to special interests (think ACORN sweety). Then yes, they are traitors of the worst kind. And, to call it more correctly. You are simply a useful idiot

Jul 1, 2009

TREASON: PROVIDING AID AND COMFORT TO THE ENEMY. One can be a traitor to a cause or a country. Petraeus is neither, Bono and company are both. If you truly don't understand the difference let me explain. When a military General reporting on the status of a war effort is called a betrayer a reasonable person would assume the accuser is implying traitorous actions against one's country. This is greatly different from a case where set of political party members VOTE against the cause of that party which provided support for their election in presumed exchange for their support for that party's agenda. Gen. Petraeus presented facts as he saw them and did not "offer aid or comfort to the enemy". Mary Bono and the RINO band did "aid" the Dems with their bill and I'm sure that Ms. Pelosi was comforted by their support. This By definition would make them TRAITORS to the Republican cause.

Jul 1, 2009

I don't understand your question, regarding the question you start this piece with. What did General Petraeus DO to earn the monker "General Betray-Us"? Answer: nothing. Branding him as a liar was completely unjustified on the facts. The term "traitor" does not mean, obviously, that they are traitors to their country. If you take it to mean that you are willfully misunderstanding. They are traitors to their party. These 8 Republican Congressman voted with the Democrats on one of the most important pieces of legislation to be dealt with by this Congress. By doing this, they allowed other Democrat Congressmen to get a "free pass" and vote NO on the bill. They did not stick with their party on this vote.

Jul 1, 2009

Context is everything. You are right that the word "traitor" has an obviously bad connotation to it and that most of its most remembered uses have been in reference to figures who have betrayed the nation, usually in some kind of official capacity. However, there is a difference between connotation and definition. The 8 RINO's that voted with the Dem's on Friday betrayed the principles they professed to believe. In that sense they are traitors. By definition. You are correct that they don't meet the classic Benedict Arnold or Rosenberg examples but they are traitors none the less. www.razshafer.com

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