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Why was it so hard for Dems even to start health care debate?

By: Byron York
Chief Political Correspondent
11/21/09 6:43 PM EST

The extraordinary thing about the dramatic events surrounding the health care bill in the Senate is that there was any drama at all. Lawmakers were simply voting to begin debate on the Democratic version of health care reform. Just begin debate -- not end it, and not move on to a final vote.

If Democrats, with a 60-vote majority in the Senate, had not been able to begin debate on the top Democratic policy priority in a generation -- well, that would have been a devastating turn of events, both for the party and for President Obama. And yet just starting debate proved difficult, and only on the last day did the 60th Democratic vote fall in place in favor of beginning the process.

I asked a high-ranking Republican Senate source whether it was really that hard to get the Democratic votes together. Could it have been a media-fed story, with reporters looking to inject some unwarranted drama into the proceedings? No, I was told. "It really was that hard for them to get to 60 just to proceed," the source said. "Very telling."

And judging by the statements of four moderate Democrats -- Lieberman, Lincoln, Landrieu, and Nelson -- it will be far, far harder when the process comes to the really important vote, the one that would bring debate to a close and move on to an up-or-down vote on the Democrats' health care plan. On Saturday, all four of those Democrats publicly threatened to side with Republicans and kill the bill before it can move to a final vote, unless their concerns are met.

"If the bill remains where it is now, I will not be able to support a cloture motion before final passage," Sen. Joseph Lieberman said. "I'm prepared to vote against moving to the next stage of consideration as long as a government-run public option is included," said Sen. Blanche Lincoln. "My vote to move forward on this important debate should in no way be construed by the supporters of this current framework as an indication of how I might vote as this debate comes to an end," said Sen. Mary Landrieu. And Sen. Ben Nelson said he will "oppose the second cloture motion -- needing 60 votes -- to end debate, and oppose the final bill" if major changes are not made.

Some of that is the normal positioning and bargaining that takes place when big bills are considered. But the Democrats' problems in keeping their side together, in the face of united Republican opposition, are an indicator of how public opinion is beginning to dominate the health care debate. Dozens of polls show that Americans are deeply divided over the issue, with a slight plurality opposing the Democratic health care plans currently under consideration in Congress. Clear majorities of Americans don't believe their health care will improve under the plan, and do believe the plan will increase the deficit. Given that, Democrats are trying to pass the biggest piece of legislation in decades, one that will create an enormous and permanent new entitlement, with less than majority support among the public. And they're racing to do it with less than a year to go before mid-term elections that most observers believe will result in fewer Democrats in Congress. No wonder it's hard.
 




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Reader Comments

All comments on this page are subject to our Terms of Use and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Examiner or its staff. Comment box is limited to 250 words.

Matthew

Nov 21, 2009

This is robbery and THAT is why most of the country is against it! This will remove the democrats from office next year.

 

dudh

Nov 21, 2009

Look at the vote in support, a huge majority! Arcane rules of the Senate. This legislation benefits millions of Americans. Allowing a negative, rightwing minority to stand in the way won't happen.

 

dwd

Nov 21, 2009

You're in la la land. This is not a benefit. This is a take over with the worthless gov. that can't do any right or good in control. I can't believe this piece of crap bill has gotten this far. To say repubs are standing in the way is beyond la la land. The dems own this and will pay come next nov. My only hope is this piece of crap doesn't make it or goes the way of cap and trade.

 

DJ

Nov 21, 2009

Thank God it will probably never leave the Senate. But if it should make it back to the House, they have one serious dilemma. The Bill only passed by two votes in the heavily Dim-o-RAT House, and if they take the Stupak anti-abortion language out of it, they will lose all of the pro-life Reps. If they leave it in, they will lose all of the pro-death Reps. I don't see it passing for that reason. And thank God for that! This is the single biggest business, job, and liberty killing Bills ever proposed by the U.S. Congress!

 

jason

Nov 21, 2009

Yes, this bill benefits millions of Americans by shredding the rights and stealing the money of HUNDREDS of millions of Americans.

 

dwd

Nov 21, 2009

I cannot believe this crap bill has gone this far. Every time I think it's gonna die it survives. There's something wrong with the dems, they used to say those mean christians took over the repub party but it appears the way left loons took over the dem party. God help us

 

theanswer

Nov 22, 2009

This bill should be KILLED along with the careers of the politicians that voted for a bill that the MAJORITY
of the nation is AGAINST.

 

ggordon

Nov 22, 2009

One of the reasons it passed - flat out bribes paid to states of Senators on the fence - $100 mil of OUR money going to Louisiana to get the Landreau vote. You or I do anything like this?... we go to jail.
The cost has already gone up - a bill has been passed to lower the fees and taxes on big pharma and device makers. It hasn't even been debated, and it's more expensive!!
And, add in the unfunded mandates to the states - the Dems pushing this are LIARS. And Joe is still right - Obama lies.

 

ggordon

Nov 22, 2009

Hey Dudh - whay are polls that get into the details of the bill when polling - show 70% of Americans against this crap. CRAP
Socialist, Marxist grab of money and power. Based on lies. They want to insure people, they can do it for less than 10% of the costs of the crap by simply buying a private policy for uninsured who can't afford it. Of course, those who can't afford it are only 50% of the "uninsured".
This whole idea of forcing people to do something, and taking over an industry that doesn't even get everyone covered, is Stalinist in nature.
"Hi, I'm the health insurance police. Show me your policy or go to jail!!"

 

Nov 22, 2009

read a british paper.
if you think this is really about better care, you are an illiterate moron.

 

ggordon

Nov 22, 2009

One total ripoff and fraud (among many). They begin collecting taxes 3 years before the services would be offered. Billions and billions of dollars supposedly for healthcare. Where is that money "held"? Do they set up trust accounts like Social Security or the National Highway trust fund? Or - and you KNOW - will it go to the general fund? LOL LOL LOL - it will go to the general fund regardless of what they say. They will just "borrow" the money and insert "IOUs" just as they have for SS. The money will be spent in the continuing explosion of social programs. The money won't be there! Congress has already stolen trillions from SS - it is totally insolvent and bankrupt - really has been for years. Medicare gets cut? LOL LOL - it gets restored - so chalk that up as another non-savings.
This is absolutely fraudulent and anyone who doesn't see this as obvious - is an absolute FOOL. Joe is still right - but he should have yelled "you lie" on a daily basis during the House debate.

 

ADM

Nov 22, 2009

If this legislation is so great, why are the Dems so desperate to pass it this year? Why can't they take their time,"get it right", and pass this say, next August?

 

Angellight

Nov 22, 2009

Saturday night's Senate Vote Just to have a debate on Healthcare, was a small victory for the "agents of change" democrats). It is noteworthy, that the Party of No & Fear, also fought against Social Security Reform and Medicare, and true to form or color, they are fighting against healthcare reform today!

 

Michael

Nov 22, 2009

"A Huge Majority?" 60 votes by 60 Democrats is not a huge majority - especially when it included a $100 Million for Mary Landrieu. Especially when Blanche Lincoln political future is hanging by a thread and voting for the final version would definitely seal her fate. This bill is the single most monstrous idea every proposed by the Democratic Party and when it goes down in flames, it will rightfully damage the party for many years.

 

jbubba

Nov 22, 2009

Michael,
I believe the "huge majority" was referring to the Dem majority in the House where it only passed by two votes. And one of those was a Republican from Lousisiana. What is it with Louisiana? Anyway, I agree with the rest or your comment and I hope the voters don't forget it come Nov. 2010.

 

JohninJersey

Nov 22, 2009

You asked a "high-ranking Republican Senate source" and they spoke ill of the Democrats? My God! Stop the presses!

The only thing remarkable about the 60 votes is that nowadays any Democratic proposal needs absolutely unanimous support including Lieberman, because the Republicans have decided to stop all consideration of any Democratic proposals.

Also, the reason that it is difficult to rally the Democrats is because they are made up of liberals, conservatives, libertarians, etc. They are the party of rational thought. All Republicans with sanity have fled and made the Democrats far more diverse. It's hard to bring people with widely divergent views together.

It's easy for the Republicans to bring a bunch of lunatics togheter.

 

leroy

Nov 22, 2009

The thing that blows me away is that the libs are willing to entrust a Dick Cheney or any other politician with their health decisions. I guess in la la land they think the dem majority is permanent.

 

Toko Realist

Nov 22, 2009

Right!!!

Name a Democrat Libertarian in the Senate. Just one. Any one?

 

Bill Carson

Nov 22, 2009

I am having a very difficult time waiting until Nov. 2010 to vote against every Democrat possible, even state senators.

 

tridog

Nov 22, 2009

This is not going to happen. Since it will not happen before the end of 2009 - there are going to be too many Dems that will not vote for this pig if they think it will cost them their seats in the 2010 election. And the old saw that 'dems lost in 1994 because they failed on heathcare is BS. The lost because of WHAT they TRIED to do. I see the same thing happening again. Dems lose big in 2010

 

William H Stoddard

Nov 22, 2009

The claim that the bill will benefit millions of Americans strikes me as dubious. I'm an uninsured self-employed man. If the bill passes, in any of its proposed forms, it will not result in my being insured, because I can't afford what insurance will cost; rather, it will result in my paying an annual fine of nearly $1,000 for not being insured, which will leave me financially worse off . . . and still not insured. And the CMS estimates that 18 million Americans will be in the same position. Don't say that this is for OUR benefit!

 

yarbros@comcast.net

Nov 22, 2009

First of all Landreau was promised $300 million not $100 mil. Second, the Dems are lying when they say it is paid for and everyone knows it. Arlen Spector said today on TV that there would be a board that will make all of the tough decisions that require cuts in services such as the Medicare cuts. He said that this commission would make the tough calls that Congress hasn't the stomach for. Death Panel anyone? The senate has now moves the out lay of any treatment for any new patient to 2014. That's the only way they can claim that it is deficit neutral. 10 years of taxes with 6 years of payments. These are dishonest liars and you libs can call the Repubs anything that you want but they are at least trying to expose this sham. As far as the dimwit above saying that the REpubs never did anything about Social Security go back and see what GWB tried to do and who blocked every discussion of it.

 

ggordon

Nov 22, 2009

One total ripoff and fraud (among many). They begin collecting taxes 3 years before the services would be offered. Billions and billions of dollars supposedly for healthcare. Where is that money "held"? Do they set up trust accounts like Social Security or the National Highway trust fund? Or - and you KNOW - will it go to the general fund? LOL LOL LOL - it will go to the general fund regardless of what they say. They will just "borrow" the money and insert "IOUs" just as they have for SS. The money will be spent in the continuing explosion of social programs. The money won't be there! Congress has already stolen trillions from SS - it is totally insolvent and bankrupt - really has been for years. Medicare gets cut? LOL LOL - it gets restored - so chalk that up as another non-savings.
This is absolutely fraudulent and anyone who doesn't see this as obvious - is an absolute FOOL. Joe is still right - but he should have yelled "you lie" on a daily basis during the House debate.

 

Rex

Nov 22, 2009

I don't understand why anyone votes for most Democrats. All they seem to do is advocate and try to policies that hurt our economy. But yet most people say that the economy and jobs are their top priority -- an interesting dichotomy at best.

 

Amazed

Nov 22, 2009

I'm amazed at how easy it is to distract you guys. All of the comments are about the horse race, none about what the bill will do. I have heart disease. If I lose my job, no company will ensure me. When this bill becomes law, that will change. It might save my life. Shame on the Republicans for voting in lock step against people like me.

 

Joey

Nov 22, 2009

'Amazed'. I'm sorry for your condition but, please. Those of us against this monstrous bill are not all against Health Care Reform. We're just against THIS Health Care reform. This bill is a travesty that will do far more harm than good. The Democrats are not dealing in good faith. They do not have all of the options on the table, such as their Trial Lawyer buddies nor do they include solutions like Interstate purchasing of health insurance in order to introduce TRUE competition, like auto insurance products for example. No, the Democrats are trying to ram rod their particular brand of health care through the Congress. It is an outrage.

 

fenrisulven@comcast.net

Nov 22, 2009

Amazed; "I have heart disease."

Sorry about that. Was it preventable?

"If I lose my job, no company will ensure me. When this bill becomes law, that will change. It might save my life. Shame on the Republicans for voting in lock step against people like
me."

No. Shame on YOU for placing an iron collar around the necks of my children simply to extend your own life.

 

Nov 22, 2009

You can tell it is a lousy bill supporting a lousy policy. They LIE.

This will bankrupt the Country. It has ten years of taxing and six years of spending. Does anyone believe the first four years of collections goes into a trust fund? NO. So year five and no later we are sunk

 

miriam

Nov 22, 2009

I have heart disease. If I lose my job, no company will ensure me. When this bill becomes law, that will change. It might save my life.

If you lose your job, there are already options in place: COBRA, Medicaid, to name a couple.

What is "heart disease"? Coronary artery disease? Angina? Atrial fibrillation? A Heart murmur? Heart disease is a catch-all term. Could be anything, or nothing. The fact that you don't mention exactly what is wrong with you leads me to believe that whatever is wrong with you, it's not life-threatening.

By the way, are you older than 70? Then the government can just let you die.

 

Liz

Nov 22, 2009

I have not seen even the slightest effort by the Dems to even LISTEN to any of the ideas proposed by the Republicans. The Dems just shut out all debate. Ultimately, as others have said, it is not really about genuine health care reform anyway. It is about power and control. It is about every American citizen losing their liberty. This bill needs to 'die quickly.'

 

A_TRUE_American

Nov 22, 2009

While there are many aspects to this bill that I dont like, this bill is NEEDED. Anyone getting in the way of its passage is an obstructionist pure and simple.

 

A_TRUE_American

Nov 22, 2009

While I dont agree with some parts of this bill, some form of reform is needed. Anyone getting in the way of its passage is an obstructionist pure and simple.

Nice, im being censored because my views dont match the websites? Sad.

 

Liz

Nov 22, 2009

I've also read some comments here and there that castigate the Republicans for not doing anything about runaway health care costs over the past eight years. Maybe so. Maybe they could be accused of benign neglect. But this Democratic travesty is not a mere "health care reform" bill. It is a massive unfunded entitlement, yes, but its more insidious aim is designed to destroy the health care sector and ultimately the economy. Yes, I'm sure there is a list somewhere detailing every fault of the Republican Senators and Congress. But the last time I checked, the Republicans are not trying to destroy the economy via disastrous legislation, or, I might add, do everything they can to undermine the Constitution every chance they get.

 

Radegunda

Nov 23, 2009

I have a list somewhere of 8 or 10 targeted, practical measures to make medical care more affordable and accessible, brought before Congress ca. 2007-2008, and all voted down. Saying that Republicans have done nothing is false.

The Dems did not, and still don't, want any practical solutions that will not result in massively more government power.

And, "true American" (yeah, right), why do we "need" a monster bill that has bad things in it? Why not start with small bills that don't have bad stuff--and that the people voting on them will agree to apply to themselves?

 

Nov 23, 2009

To put it simply AND crudely - compassion is good business/theater.

 

BuhBye!

Nov 23, 2009

Possibly to assuage the guilt of ex klansman & fine winos (Byrd ,Dodd) as they ease out of this life - their act is sure to impress St.Peter.

 

Red State

Nov 23, 2009

A big con...lull us into thinking we have a chance - wrong. After that low life corrupt Louisiana pol takes 300 mil, and Blanche get promised Sec of Ag. the bill will be watered down and conference committee will put all the crap back in.....we are doomed with the Schumer, Pelosi (notice I left out that weasle Reid)corruption and manipulation strategies on the futher looting of the Treasury!

 

markit8dude

Nov 23, 2009

'Government Mandated Insurance' is vying to be in place, albeit with the most scandalous loopholes, greasing palms imaginable, is for 'keeping the insurance companies competitive/ honest'.

Riiight, I've got some prime real estate on the moon for sale..

'A_True..' and 'Amazed' - you really should research Rahm's brother/ Doctor.. 'Amazed' you're expendable. A_True.. - you're a useful idiot.

 

ggordon

Nov 26, 2009

Hey Amazed - while I feel sympathetic to your plight, why is it my responsibility to pay for your health? Really? And incidentally, with the long waiting periods for testing, then treatment, you may not survive. You say you have a job - your insurance company can't drop you during treatment. This is ridiculous.
Do you understand that mortality rates - that's people dying - are 2x to 5x higher in countries with socialized medicine than they are in the US? Long waiting periods, rationing... what makes you think we won't have the same? Frankly, it will be worse because we are 6x the population of say, England. 10x bigger than Canada. This is ridiculous
Then cost... it is a huge lie to cost it out as the House and Senate have done. My first question - did you factor in the 25% fraud that we have in other gov run programs? oops, just uped the cost a few hundred billion.

 

ggordon

Nov 26, 2009


One of the biggest lies in the whole debate?? That the Republicans have not offered up any plans or ideas.
The Dems won't give them a hearing - there have been dozens of plans, amendments, etc. - and none take over a whole industry, or take away rights, or threaten people with jail. The plan they held up and published before House and Senate votes was 300 pages, not 2000 pages of crap - absolute crap.
The Democrats should be ashamed of themselves, but I guess that would require a conscience. This is nothing more than a grab of power and money. And it sets us and future generations up for poverty - there will be almost unlimited liability/spending unless there is severe rationing or huge, economy suffocating tax increases.
The Dems are smarmy liars.

 

ggordon

Nov 26, 2009


HEY - ALL YOU WOMEN IN THE CROWD... what did you think about the announcemnt on mammograms? I hope you understand that the office or group that came out with those recommendations is actually part of the Department of Health and Human Services - part of the executive branch. It was not some private group. So, it was your buddy Barack who must have given his nod to this - you certainly didn't hear any outrage from him.
I SAY AGAIN - HEY WOMEN - DO YOU LIKE THAT PROCLAMATION FROM OUR PRESIDENT. But he offers hope and change. Obama could care less about anybody's health - it's clear by his support of the health bills, partial birth abortion (no I'm not some anti abortion kook - I just find it repugnant to stick a spike in a baby's head.) etc.
Obama is mean spirited even - but most Marxists are...

 

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