By: Gregory Kane
Reader Comments
Silent Jim
May 11, 2009
Great column Gregory, 4.0!
May 11, 2009
It’s easier to dismiss proponents of same-gender marriage as bigots than to answer questions about expanding the definition of marriage. Thank you for wasting an entire column avoiding the topic.
Marriage Advocate
May 11, 2009
It’s easier to dismiss proponents of same-gender marriage as bigots than to answer questions about expanding the definition of marriage. Thank you for wasting an entire column avoiding the topic.
Phil
May 11, 2009
"It’s easier to dismiss proponents of traditional marriage as bigots than to answer questions about whether changing traditional marriage will lead to polygamy, or the lowering of the minimum age to marry." So, you spend an entire column suggesting that those who are anti-same-sex marriage are not necessarily bigots, and then you just decide to insert a statement toward the end, with no logical link, that suggests that same-sex marriage is the path to pedophilia? I think one reason that critics of your stance are quick to denigrate your mindset is because of the lack of restraint that social conservatives show when whipping out breathtakingly offensive straw man arguments.
DRB
May 11, 2009
AS near as I can tell, the writer provides all of two examples of atttacks on Ms Prejean - a "student in his writing class" calling her a prejudiced "b" and Mr Hilton calling for her to resign. I am not at all convinced that there was that much of an attack on Ms Prejean. OK, granted maybe there should have been no attack at all, but I think what are seeing in this column (and in Mr Sheppard's) is somethng of a munufactured story about hateful liberal attacks that did not happen.
Dero
May 13, 2009
The problem is this, are you stating an opinion or having a "debate?" Are you telling people your beliefs or are you engaging in political advocacy? If you are doing the latter, then it's not a matter of if you get criticized, it's a matter of when. And it SHOULD be that way. It's not bigotry to call another person's policies stupid. Carrie Prejean decided to flirt with the politics of the situation and she got burned. That's life.
GLwelder
May 13, 2009
Liberals will never win the argument based on reason or logic; They must shout down their opponents with cries of racist or bigot etc...
Ernesto Salisbury
May 13, 2009
Great article.I share your disdain for Gov Erhlich's cowardly behavior firing a Maryland official who stated, in essence, that he agreed his church's (Roman Catholic) doctrine as to the nature of homosexual acts. I believe that the first refuge of scoundrels, nowadays, is to accuse someone of being a bigot, homoophobe, racist, etc.
snuuz
May 13, 2009
well said, Mr. Kane. The liberals that get it won't like it, but most of them won't get it. You can't have it both ways. Everyone should be able to express a personal opinion without being charge with hating. Libs need to lighten up.
senor
May 13, 2009
Gregory is right, of course. 30 years ago, homosexuality was considered a neurosis and was illegal in all 50 states; what enduring societal standards, or even laws, can we look to to prevent say, in another 30 years, the discovery that polygamy is a constitutional right, or incest, or, yes pedophilia? How is the larger society going to answer when a pedophile or polygamist argues that he was born that way and that, therefore he is a pedophile-American, with the same lack of scientific evidence that exists for those who claim that homosexuality is genetic? The point is that not too many years ago, homosexuality was considered as beyond the pale as those are now. Times have changed; what is to keep them from changing still more? It is indeed an attempt to silent dissent by labeling those who raise these concerns as bigots.
ted logan
May 13, 2009
The safe position is to preface any comment with "I agree with President Obama ..." Whatever you say, there's a good chance Barack Obama said something similar.
David E
May 13, 2009
I concur that the girl is not a bigot. However, she has repeatedly lied to the beauty contest organizers about her risque photos and she has violated her agreement by joining organizations without the consent of the same organizers. That should be enough to make her resign, but Donald Trump, hardly a paragon of virtue himself, feels that she shouldn't. Fairly hypocritical, but unsurprising.
JT
May 13, 2009
Okay, so some people can use their religious beliefs to justify their bigotry. But this isn't about their freedom of religion - they're free to practice their religion in America. But how about being a good American and looking beyond your own beliefs and offering freedom to those who have the freedom not to share your beliefs? You can be both, a good Christian and a good American. As far as Prejean goes, her problem is like so many others - she's a hypocrite. She's just using the church to advance herself. She's not exactly the Sunday School teacher she'd like to portray herself as.
Mark
May 13, 2009
It's those who wish to deny people rights who are bigots.
rob.dieringer
May 13, 2009
RE: "[I]f Prejean’s comments about gay marriage rose to the offensive level of “queer jokes,” condemning gays to hell, minstrel shows or stoning anyone." I think the answer, to many people, is simply "Yes." Marriage is considered a fundemental right to a lot of people, on par with the right to walk freely in the streets without being hit or having the right to vote. Restriction of that fundemental right is also considered so disrespectful that its on par with being the butt of a joke, like in a minstral show. So, be careful when you accuse people of trying to "hijack the English language." I assume you mean that marraige should only be defined as between a man and a woman? Well, many people don't believe that, and certainly all of them aren't left wing, like your conservative-libertarian friend.
May 13, 2009
Article Author: "When I sent him an e-mail asking him if Prejean’s comments about gay marriage rose to the offensive level of “queer jokes,” condemning gays to hell, minstrel shows or stoning anyone, I got no response." Prejean: "I felt as though Satan was trying to tempt me in asking me this question." Let's play a quick reason game. 1.This intelligent beauty believes that Satan was trying to persuade her into accepting gay marriage. 2. Satan is bad, lives in hell 3. Presumably, if Satan is tempting you to do something, it is evil 4. Thus, Gay marriage = evil 5. Doing evil things condemns you to hell. 6. Ta da! So don't take offense. People might have unsubscribed from your column because you cant formulate an argument, not because they love gay people so much.
P.R.H.
May 13, 2009
* The question was meant to provoke a thoughtful answer by the 'individual' contestant. * The question was looking for different and personal answers. * The question was not meant to be a debate. * The question is - who was speaking 'out of turn' and without being asked? * The question is - why are LGBT ers angry and 'in your face' and confrontational? * The question is - why do we allow this confrontational and rude behavior to continue to intimidate us? Answers anyone?
Bad Dog
May 13, 2009
In the United States everyone enjoys their First Amendment rights except for Christians. Muslims can denounce America as capitalist pigs, but if I Christian speaks their mind on their religious views, they are bigots. Hmmmm.
KM
May 13, 2009
Aren't Carrie Prejean and the people that defend her auguments the same ones that we heard during the civil rights movement in the 60? This is the way I was raised, Liberal don't want to debate this, they just yell bigots? Etc.
chris
May 13, 2009
You know, an answer to the question of whether Prejean’s comments about gay marriage rose to the offensive level of “queer jokes,” condemning gays to hell, minstrel shows or stoning anyone, would be nice. Oh wait, it's easier to cry "bigot" or "homophobe!" Please...
AmericanCitizenFromBrazil
May 13, 2009
Interesting article. One of the few reasonable one's I have seen. Liberals have a tendency of using hyperbole and insults to push their views and yet, and they have thin skin when it comes to dealing with criticism. They can dish, but they can not take it.
BabaLou
May 13, 2009
HA......it's the same way Sarah Palin was treated, and no one in the media defended her right to an opinion.
Jeff Johns
May 13, 2009
Real Bigot: "How do you feel about polygamist marriage?" Not allowed to have an opinion: "Well, I..." Real Bigot: "Shut your face, you will support it!" Real Bigot: "What do you think about incestuous marriage?" Not allowed: "Well I think..." Real Bigot: "IT'S MY RIGHT TO MARRY WHOEVER I WANT SHUT UP AND SUPPORT IT YOU BIGOT!!!" Pretty much the same thing with the gay marriage "debate" today.
Mike from Detroit
May 13, 2009
I'm a liberal and I think "liberal bigotry" does exist. But I don't think that applies here. Ms. Prejean's pageant answer was virtually incoherent (The question probably unfair). But she chose to claim politcal persecution, and allow others to claim it on her behalf. Once she joined up with National Organization for Marriage, the facts on the ground have changed. That's a political group, which means you're entering politics for better or for worse. Some of what she's faced has been unfair, although printing photos she consented to pose for in a modeling context does not constitute an attack.
Nathan McKnight
May 13, 2009
Opposition to marriage rights for gays is no less bigoted and disgusting than opposition to marriage rights for blacks or Jews or any other group. Our country is based on the belief that *all* people are equal--*all* people. All of them. Everybody. That's the foundational principle. An attack on that principle is an attack on all Americans.
lezah2
May 13, 2009
Good column. Left wing people forget when they don't allow others to have opinions, they are just as repressive as the conservative right wing evangelicals they love to despise. No difference.
Bob H
May 13, 2009
Gay people are always considered intolerant when they criticize straight people who are TRYING TO TAKE AWAY THEIR RIGHTS. Gay people aren't trying to take away straight people's rights. That is the debate, and as you can see, it is not a level playing field.
jd
May 13, 2009
no one disputes another american's right to free speech but those who disagree with that free speech also have the right of free speech to voice their opinions
Marriage Advocate
May 13, 2009
If traditional marriage (between two genders) can exclude polygamy, pedophilia and fraudulent unions where both parties don't consent, why can't same-gender marriage exclude them, too? What's wrong with specifically stating that marriage can only exclusively be between two consenting adults, regardless of gender? What is so bigoted about that expansion of marriage?
justjim1
May 13, 2009
Any gay couple with one or the other going to have a child ought to be allowed to marry to give the child a stable home. After all, we would not wish the child to be considered a legal basturd, now would we?
Paul Falduto
May 13, 2009
Most liberals, including yours truly, couldn't care less about this. Don't lump us all in with this Hilton fellow. Who cares what this woman thinks about same sex marriage?
michael
May 13, 2009
This whole episode answers the question: "What is the harm of gay marriage?". The continual gay activist intimidation, harassment, and open persecution of Prop 8 supporters reveals their "true colors" and their persistent intentions to restrict the free exercise of religion and stifle free speech. This is the future outcome of gay marriage facing Americans. Let's be honest here - who can deny there is a fundamental clash of opposing moral visions? Americans must choose between the two moral visions. Certainly, for gay activists, these two moral visions cannot "coexist" and gay activism will remain hatefully intolerant of an opposing point of view.
The Nurse
May 13, 2009
The reason we call you a bigot is because you are one. Your linking pediphilia and polygamy with two consenting adults getting married shows your true throughts on the matter and proves that you are in fact a bigot. It is not to dismiss you , it is just the fact tha you proved so eloquently on your very own. Congratulations on that !!
Burrito
May 13, 2009
So you're argument is that using terms like bigot are a red herring, a red herring that's preventing us from talking about the red herring whether allowing gays to marry will lead to polygamy or the lowering of the marriage age? Please explain what good trading one red herring for another does.
michael
May 13, 2009
"Bigot!" My goodness, when are the gay activists going to give this overused term? How about sound reasoning? Why are gay activists so inclined to resort to mocking and name calling? Emotive outbursts of "Bigot" is so yesterday. It has zero impact. Logic and sound reasoning is far more powerful. Anybody with a strong opinion backed up with reasonable logic is always called a bigot. That's the future of gay marriage in America. Bigot, bigot, bigot...overused mockery to stifle free speech. Well, gays are bigots toward Prop 8 supporters...on and on we go.
Ernie Banks
May 13, 2009
All the folks that demand the right to gay marriage are just discriminating against other deserving groups. If we want to broaden the definition of marriage, we should be be much more enclusionary. If you're gay, you can get married. But if you're a Mormon that believes in plural marriage, you're out of luck. Or if you're a Muslim that follows Muhammed's example, you might want to marry a 6 year old and consummate the marriage when she turns 9. Why is it ok for gay rights activists to advocate that we withhold marriage from these groups?
michael
May 13, 2009
Logic, sound reasoning, facts. There is a substantive and profound natural difference between gay vs. straight sexual relationships. Hence, different terms to define the "relationship". Empirically, we know opposite sex unions are fundamentally different and functionally superior to the partnership of two identical genders. Obviously, opposite sex unions with the complexity of complimentary genders, husband/wife roles, ability to produce life, and the creation of father/mother relationships, sets them apart from same sex partnerships. It's comparing apples to oranges (i.e. "unequal"). Americans intuitively recognize that same-sex partnerships vs. opposite-sex unions are inherently separate and unequal. Because Prejean intuitively comes to this obvious conclusion she is called a bigot! Logic, sound reasoning, and facts. Is Prejean suppose to put her brain on the shelf?
May 13, 2009
So many comments that typify the left, such as accusing the author of suggesting that gays are pedophiles, when no such statement or suggestion was made. The left is incapable of honest debate, largely because their positions cannot be supported. So they resort to name-calling. It is always some accusation of "racist", "bigot", "homophobe" or whatever is handy, but the liberals will never discuss an issue on its merits, except claiming imaginary "rights". It is time for decent people to stand up to the real bigots in this country-- the liberals.
RH
May 13, 2009
Let me summarize. A pretty girl, standing in almost nothing, is asked a question by a homosexual judge (one of two) in a female beauty contest. She gives a cogent answer. Most followers believe her answer cost her the crown and perhaps millions in lost future income. She is challenged for being previously photographed in circa 90% of her clothing, exonerated by the likes of Mr. Trump, but is called a "b....." by Johns Hopkins intellectuals who judge culture. And people care about this aburdity(I am not one). America is in deep trouble.
CALMAN
May 13, 2009
The topic was the useful way one side manipulates language. His assertion is that the left attacked Prejean as a bigot even though religious beliefs are not in and of themselves bigotry. The left uses such trickery in language and that trickery is in and of itself bigotry against people of a certain religious bent.
Marriage Advocate
May 13, 2009
Ernie Banks, we removed racial discrimination from marriage decades ago, without allowing polygamy and child exploitation in the institution. Why would it be so unreasonable to remove gender discrimination from the institution, without AUTOMATICALLY allowing multiple partners or minors?
Marriage Advocate
May 13, 2009
Ernie Banks, we removed racial discrimination from marriage decades ago, without allowing polygamy and child exploitation in the institution. Why would it be so unreasonable to remove gender discrimination from the institution, without AUTOMATICALLY allowing multiple partners or minors?
Gee
May 13, 2009
Hilton is incorrect. They voted on the proposition to make gay marriage legal in CA and it failed! So, by his/her/or whatever it is' logic, she did actually voice the opinion of the majority on CA!
paul mpls mn
May 13, 2009
"gay marriage is non-sense ! " we do not need third party reproduction in this country to be supported nor do we need it promoted. Same-sex pairings require another person to reproduce and therefore complex that equation. We do not need any more confusion in the family unit ! it's tough enough the way it is! Miss California was attacked long before the question was asked. Hilton knew what her viewpoint was before he asked his offensive attack what with 4-5 other interviews from other days. I respect her for standing tall under pressure!!!
davelnaf
May 13, 2009
The interesting thing about liberals is that if they are not telling everyone what a great job they are doing they are cooking up ways to smear, intimidate, and harass people that say things that come close to suggesting they are not in agreement with them. Such touchiness must some psychological significance, suggesting perhaps that liberals hardly believe in the allegedly 'good' things they are doing.
Marauder
May 14, 2009
How very true! The best way to win a debate if you can't trust your facts or position is to prevent the other side from presenting their opinion!
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