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Conservative revolt good news for Republicans

By: Chris Stirewalt
Political Editor
November 2, 2009

File photo

A liberal Republican was driven out of the race for a vacant House seat in upstate New York by a surge in support for the Conservative Party candidate.

As a result, a political neophyte CPA running as a third-party candidate stands a good chance of getting elected to Congress on Tuesday.

Democrats say they’re thrilled.

The talking points already in heavy rotation say that a win by Conservative Doug Hoffman over Democrat Bill Owens will only encourage tea party populists to take on the Republican establishment. More primaries. Weaker general election candidates. Fewer Democratic losses in 2010.

That’s the way Obama political operatives are spinning the withdrawal of Dede Scozzafava in New York’s 23rd District. They ought to know: It’s the same mantra that Democratic grandees used against Obama’s presidential candidacy.

Hillary Clinton’s surrogates said that Obama shouldn’t have even run because a primary challenge would divide the party and weaken Clinton for the general election showdown with inevitable Republican nominee Rudy Giuliani.

Obama correctly rejected that notion, saying that a contested primary would energize, not demoralize, the Democratic base.

Then, after Obama surged to the lead in the Democratic primaries, the Clinton team argued that Obama didn’t have the chops to take on the resurrected John McCain. An anti-war, community organizing liberal Democrat versus a war hero and moderate Republican? C’mon.

Many Republicans welcomed Obama’s nomination. What Clinton’s pollster Mark Penn called Obama’s “lack of American roots” and reputation as an arugula-munching, big-city intellectual would take states like Indiana, Ohio, Virginia and North Carolina off the table, right?

Obama adopted a rope-a-dope strategy in the primaries as Clinton battled on into the summer of 2008 (Remember “Puertorriquenos con Hillary”?), but he never stopped being the liberal choice.

Obama beat Clinton for the same reason that Hoffman may win in upstate New York. He offered an authentic, passionate vision of his party’s core principles and did it in a way that didn’t make moderates uncomfortable.

The president may be something of a disappointment to liberals since taking office, but as a candidate he excited their ardor as Howard Dean once did. And it was the hard work and money of the Left that propelled Obama into the White House.

Hoffman, a successful accountant from White Plains, N.Y., sought the GOP nomination to run for the seat left vacant when Obama tapped eight-term Republican John McHugh to be secretary of the Army. But because it was a short-notice special election, the nomination was made by the solons of the dying Republican Party of the 11 counties in the district.

It rebuffed Hoffman in favor of Scozzafava, whose liberal voting record and high name recognition (she served as a mayor and in the state assembly) must have seemed like a good match for a district Obama had won narrowly the year before.

Super-square Hoffman had no political track record, and his positions are quite conservative: low taxes, less spending, opposition to global warming regulations, restricted access to abortion, etc.

It was as if the superdelegates had picked Clinton instead of Obama on the grounds of electability.

But Scozzafava was not electable, especially once the conservative movement got on to her scent. Leaders of the ACORN-affiliated Working Families Party may have thought they were helping Scozzafava by endorsing her, but voters were not impressed.

Soon conservatives across the country were pouring money into Hoffman’s race and scorn onto Scozzafava. Newt Gingrich and others who are Republicans before they are conservatives tried to prop her up, warning that the party must be respected and that liberal Republicans were still better than Democrats.

Complaining about the pressure from conservatives, James Ellis, one of the party chairmen who picked Scozzafava, told the New York Times, “It’s a detriment to democracy.” Since when did democracy consist of 11 party hacks meeting at Sergi’s Italian Restaurant in Potsdam?

Republicans such as Ellis and Gingrich think the Obama team is right that Hoffman’s success spells trouble for next year. They think conservatives will take over the party and drive out moderates.

But the lesson of the Obama ascendancy is that an enthusiastic base coupled with a reasonable-sounding candidate can win elections.

The GOP remains unpopular, and the movement against career politicians is real. If the party wants to maximize its gains in 2010, it will need to look more like Doug Hoffman than Dede Scozzafava.



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Reader Comments

All comments on this page are subject to our Terms of Use and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Examiner or its staff. Comment box is limited to 250 words.

Yoshimi

Nov 1, 2009

I don't understand why the Republican party can't see what's going on. Most Americans are INDEPENDENTS. I know I am. I used to vote Republican...but if I am forced to chose candidates like Hoffman or Palin I can easily say: NEVER AGAIN!

Republicans are hurting bad, especially with the under 40 demographic (which I am part of). Their views are archaic and too far to the right socially. How can I ever find this party attractive, especially when they did nothing but GROW government under Bush only to criticize Obama and the Democrats for funding their pet projects.

It's too bad that the Republican base is full of blind, tone-deaf fools.

 

Jesus Loves Me More Than You Sayeth The Republican

Nov 1, 2009

You seem to acknowledge that moderates are necessary for electoral success in the third to last paragraph. But you never explain how Hoffman and his tea baggin' ilk, who are pretty darn far to the right, will appeal to those moderates, who are crucial to the base.

 

Jesus Loves Me More Than You Sayeth The Republican

Nov 1, 2009

You seem to acknowledge the importance of moderates in the third to last paragraph. But you never explain how Hoffman and his ilk, who are way out in right field, will appeal to moderates in order to broaden and fire up the conservative base.
Obama moved to the center in his campaign (and he's still there, no matter what GB and RL say) to attract votes. Hoffman et al keep pushing right. Not a viable strategy for a national party.

 

Reason

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi, in your complaints for the Republican party you cited excessive spending. Coincidently, your view coincides with Hoffman. How about you actually think about your views and vote upon those rather than voting based upon someone telling you that a candidate is right or left?

 

higgins1990

Nov 2, 2009

40% of America is conservative. The GOP should pitch its tent over these 40%, and then it will need to attract only 10% of the moderate/disaffected Democrat vote. Fickle moderates should not make the base of the GOP - the base belongs to principled conservatives.

Now, JLMMTYSTR, go scrape that "Hope and Change" sticker off of your bumper.

 

tiredofit

Nov 2, 2009

Just wondering....When did "ideas" become "notions" and "people" become "folks"?

 

abby

Nov 2, 2009

I am a moderate who is disgusted with both parties. I am a registered Democrat but was ready to vote for McCain last go round until he picked Palin. With that poor choice he showed me he was not ready to be President. We moderate Dems are ready to embrace a Republican but not a right wing crazy one!

 

Ronnie

Nov 2, 2009

All I ask is principals not pragmatisim....If you are a moderate and don't like conservatives and the republicans put up a conservative,then vote democrat. If the republicans put up a moderate.... I will either vote for the conservative party or write a candidate in.
I will NEVER vote the lesser of 2 evils again!! That has kept the moderates in control of the party for years.....

 

Ronnie

Nov 2, 2009

PS since all you moderates have put me in this position for the last 20 years, It will be your turn to make a decision...

 

flacracker

Nov 2, 2009

Abby, but what you got was a "left wing crazy one."

 

kmg

Nov 2, 2009

remember Ronald Reagan he was considered a wingnut by the democrats in 1980 and he won easily so its all about the people and how pissed they are if a rino cant attract money and support why put them in there

 

Shanghaied

Nov 2, 2009

Scuffy jumped right on to Owen's democrat train. Just another Arlan Specter. I'm really tired of the type hiding in my Party.

 

depaz

Nov 2, 2009

Obama is "still in the center" of his campaign?!?!? Are you KIDDING me?? What do you consider LEFT, for pete's sake?? I love how everybody goes back to Bush's spending habits. Yeah, they stunk. But remember this: the deficit he accumulated came about over a period of 8 YEARS. Our current administration managed to TRIPLE that in 8 WEEKS!! I consider myself as part of the Republican "base"; however, I am definitely NOT a "blind, tone deaf fool". Today's Republican party is not the Republican party I joined so that I could vote for Ronald Reagan in the primaries.

 

greg

Nov 2, 2009

The RNC
The party of Rush, Newt and Cheney. The big tent has collapsed.

 

James E. McMullen, III

Nov 2, 2009

Partner, the only way the consevative revolt will be good for the Republican Party is if the party starts nominating real conservatives instead of belittling them. Here in Arizona from what I'm hearing John McCain is O-U-T. RINOS NEED NOT APPLY.

 

Former Republican

Nov 2, 2009

The recent GOP group are nothing but RINOS. There's no difference between either party anymore. I'd keep Ron Paul and clean house of all the rest of the Republicrats and Demopublicans.

 

Julie

Nov 2, 2009

Hey America, how do you like that hope and change now?

 

Protip

Nov 2, 2009

Mr. Stirewalt,

When you begin a paragraph with, "Many Republicans welcomed Obama’s nomination," you might want to quote actual Republicans rather than a Democrat pollster.

 

Meridian Hutchins

Nov 2, 2009

What everyone seems to miss about the Tea Party folks, and the reason Hoffman is so popular, is that he is FISCALLY conservative. We Tea Partiers care about reducing excessive government spending, not about social issues. Many Tea Partiers are Libertarians--fiscally conservative, socially liberal.

 

motionview

Nov 2, 2009

Meridian Hutchins has it exactly right. If Scozzafava were a fiscal conservative the Tea Party movement wouldn't have gone after her the way we did.

 

Diogenes

Nov 2, 2009

Moderates are ignorant, and Liberals are just evil/stupid.

 

Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

Hey Reason: ever consider that these Republicans are LIARS when it comes to spending? All of the current Republicans who are screaming bloody murder about deficits...well, they let Bush have his way (especially with the misguided war in Iraq).

And for those of you who say Obama is too far to the left, come on people. Grow up. Live in the REAL WORLD. If you want to see what a TRUE socialist is like, go to Europe where they actually HAVE socialist parties (and, amazingly, none of those countries are communist/socialist and still enjoy the enumerated freedoms afforded by their constitutions!)

Poor uneducated base that is the current Republican party. We'll see you guys in power in 20 years when you finally get the memo after all the electoral losses you'll have to suffer.

 

avery

Nov 2, 2009


I'm a former democrat who is looking for fiscal responsibility to the citizens, not grandiose, ruinous and dishonest statist schemes like today's dems, and not big spending types who call themselves republicans like Bush & crew.

I liked Palin because of the budget cutting she did in Alaska, and do not buy the media's and DNC's trashing of her, nor their ignorant minions parroting the same uninformed hate.

For certain I won't be voting democrat again after their LIES of the past 8 years that they could govern better than Bush. They are a total innumerate nightmare of kooky ideology and self-indulgent corruption. It stinks.

 

Elisa

Nov 2, 2009

Liberals and Rinos want us to believe the GOP will lose if it "caters" to the conservative minority [not for much longer] in its ranks.

Truth be told, there GOP is dead without conservatives.
Amazingly, democrats never make the argument that the 'crazy liberals' need to be ousted from the democratic party or they will spell its doom.

Like someone else said, {Ronnie?] if you are not happy with a GOP candidate vote left, because it would be idiotic to expect conservatives to vote for so-called Republicans who tend to lean left. Duh!
Scozzafava did not deserve to run under the GOP banner. Have you forgotten Jumping Jefford? In the more recent past Arlen Specter and other traitors who used the GOP to get re-elected only to stab it in the back.

"Moderate" independents unhappy with conservatives... would never be happy with conservatism and conservatives are tired of your disingenuous games.

 

Meanwhile...

Nov 2, 2009

Hoffman is backed first and foremost by outsiders.
Nothing especially wrong with the national party getting involved, but let's call things what they are.

 

Elisa

Nov 2, 2009

Correction ~

'Truth be told, the GOP is dead without conservatives.'

 

iwasacowboy

Nov 2, 2009

Nope. The Dede Scozzafavas will have to look more like the Doug Hoffmans. Think about it. This is what's going to really happen. The conservative dream is that everything will get upended and the 'career politicians' will be thrown out of office. Bull. The 'career politicians' are 'career politicians' for a reason: they adjust to changing tides and the electorate has a short memory. Don't make too much of this, Chris.

 

MaverickIII

Nov 2, 2009

Abby, you didnt vote for McCain because of Palin, but you could vote for Obama because of Biden, you must be as smart as Biden...

 

MaverickIII

Nov 2, 2009

Both sides better start getting the real point, stop spending, waste, listen to America, stop back room deals, paying each other off for votes, all that is sooooo wrong with Washington right now.

 

elHombre

Nov 2, 2009

The mobies and RINOs are out in force today squealing about the possibility of the return to a two-party system. They liked it better when Republicans were just as corrupt and irresponsible as Democrats.

 

Lenin

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi, your condescending call to "grow up" says lots about your own maturity and doesn't make your argument valid. If you lived in the REAL WORLD, you would notice that Europe is becoming more socialist. Which is why people like me are leaving Europe, and don't want America to follow that path of self-destruction.

 

Nov 2, 2009

The morals of this country have gone in the gutter. We're becoming a Godless Nation and it shows. Conservatives are rebelling against the sludge. We are finally standing up for what we believe in. So please get off our backs for not accepting someone who doesn't represent us.

 

MaverickIII

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi,
You dont have a clue do you? Libs think they are soooo smart, if that socialist country your talking about is so great, hit the road!

 

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi
I'll fight my battles where I live first. NY 23rd.
NY 23rd is basically an aberration in NY. It's full of independant conservatives. Obama is the first Democrat presidential candidate to carry this district in decades. That is not an indication that we will ever send a leftard tool like Owens to the Congress.

Apparently you don't exist in the same universe as the rest of us. You appear to live the same self absorbed, delusional existance of many of your littermates, products of years of the relentless indoctrination afforded you courtesy of the public school system, the SEIU and union teachers. You are a cogent argument for statutory restrictions on the privilege of the franchise. Really.


 

Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

Lenin...the sad fact is America is not a very bright country. We rank near the bottom in those who believe evolution is science! Can you imagine?! Many of these people are the ones leading these "tea-parties." Say what you will about my maturity and my patriotism, and then realize that I am a college educated member of our armed forces.

And also remember this: when have conservatives EVER been on the right side of history?

We are truly in a mess of trouble if the religious right, aka the American Taliban, ever takes hold in this country (you guys made enough of a mess during the last 8 years).

 

We the People

Nov 2, 2009

Don't let the Left fool you, this doesn't mean the party is being hijacked by the right. This means the people of NY23 were offered a true choice, one that actually reflects the conservative voters that haven't elected a democrat since the civil war.

The party needs to back candidates that are representative of the voters they are meant to represent. If they are moderate then by all means put forth a moderate republican candidate, if liberal then put forth a liberal republican (whatever the heck that is) but when they are conservative do not put forth a Scouzafazza.

 

We the People

Nov 2, 2009

"Meanwhile..." to be honest Hoffman is being backed, financially, by outsiders but (unlike say Hillary) he is from this area and the poll numbers indicate he is being "backed" by voters within NY23. Outsiders may be championing him but this isn't a case of people coming from the outside and handpicking a winner as your post might suggest.

 

M. Report

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi: See Socialist Success in Europe.

Don't wait too long; They are closer to
the edge than the US, even given our
current troubles.

 

Frustrated [Elisa]

Nov 2, 2009

Four attempts at posting have all but failed. Is there a limit on posting?

 

Nov 2, 2009

"Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

Lenin...the sad fact is America is not a very bright country. We rank near the bottom in those who believe evolution is science! Can you imagine?! Many of these people are the ones leading these "tea-parties." Say what you will about my maturity and my patriotism, and then realize that I am a college educated member of our armed forces."


Ronald Reagan said:
"The problem with our opponents is not they are ignorant... It's that they know so much which isn't so."

Ronald Reagan also said:
"That is so ridiculous that only an intellectual could believe it."


Sounds like he was referring to people like you.

 

Michael

Nov 2, 2009

Republicans are supposed to be fiscally and socially conservative. Democrats are supposed to be fiscally and socially liberal. That's fine. The problem is Republicans have become fiscally liberal and socially conservative under Bush. (a losing combination) They figured as long as they were in power it's ok if they spend lots of money.

There's a lot of people out there, I would argue a majority that are fiscally conservative. Right now what choice do they have? Big government/big spending Democrats or big government/big spending Republicans.

Hoffman represents what a lot of people what, an actual conservative.

The tea party movement has been primarily about fiscal conservatism. Since neither Democrats or Republicans have offered this for quite some time it's not suprising that there would be such a groundswell of support for someone who actually thinks maybe the government shouldn't decide how best to spend everyone's money.

 

Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

Michael...so we only get two choices? There ARE centrist Democrats (fiscally conservative, socially liberal), but it's NOT okay for there to be centrist Repubs? (Ya know, fiscally conservative, socially liberal or at least moderate?)

And those of you giving me a hard time...did you know Lincoln (and the Republican party) was actually progressive in the 1880's? Wild, huh? It was a party of the common man, social justice and abolishing slavery.

But as your hero Bill Kristol has said, the Republicans are now the party of "the wealthy land owners."

Look, I give you guys kudos for being a very vocal (and disproportionately powerful) minority. Your passions and concerns are real. But the electorate is going to leave you behind, and I know you guys can feel it...that's why you're fighting so hard. This isn't the beginning of a power transfer...no, it's the end of a 30 year reign.

RIP religious right.

 

PeterM

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi I know that 40 and unders like to play this game of remaining un-committed while at the same time feeling empowered to snipe at others who invest their time and energy to accomplish a goal. This is why "young" is associated with immature. Free-speech and free-markets exist because of committed men. Before you write another sniping argument look at yourself and ask what have I contributed to this country that gives my opinion any weight.

 

Elisa

Nov 2, 2009

I am still having problems posting. So here is one thought.

Concur. Obama is not a socialist. He is a barefaced communist liar.
Keep on looking through colored lenses...but don't expect the rest of us to blindly follow you down the ravine.
Yoshimi, do you realize how uneducated, stupid and bigoted you come across?

 

Elisa

Nov 2, 2009

I am still having problems posting. So here is one thought.

Concur. Obama is not a socialist. He is a barefaced communist liar.
Keep on looking through colored lenses...but don't expect the rest of us to blindly follow you down the ravine.
Yoshimi, do you realize how uneducated, stupid and bigoted you come across?

 

Elisa

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi, "when have conservatives EVER been on the right side of history?"

Faux-pas, Yo. It's way more sensible and truthful to ask, "when have liberals EVER got it right?"

 

Nancy

Nov 2, 2009

I started to comment before, but my computer did something strange. If a comment from me appears looking incomplete, that's why.

What I was going to say was that it amuses me when I see advice from the Democrats to the Republicans on how to make their party a success. That's sort of like the Angels giving the A's tips on how to win at baseball. I'd consider the source before taking any of it to heart.

 

bill

Nov 2, 2009

For those that say stick with the 40%
conservative....the conservatives are not as monolithic as you think...10%
of voters are progovernment conservatives...

 

Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

PeterM: I am a member of our armed forces...are you a veteran? If so, I give you kudos. But please do not call my contributions to this country into question.

You have every freedom to call me immature. But I am a disaffected Republican who will not be voting for your side anytime soon. There are many more like myself, trust me.

Isn't it ironic that I am being given a hard time for my "sniping" comments, but those of you who disagree with me partake in name calling as well? Pot, please meet the kettle.

 

Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

Nancy...

let's see liberals got it right in: 1776, the Civil War, World War II, voting rights for women, unions (in the early 1900's, not their current incarnations).

But yeah, other than that, nothing I guess.

 

Diogenes

Nov 2, 2009



Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

Michael...so we only get two choices? There ARE centrist Democrats (fiscally conservative, socially liberal), but it's NOT okay for there to be centrist Repubs? (Ya know, fiscally conservative, socially liberal or at least moderate?)

And those of you giving me a hard time...did you know Lincoln (and the Republican party) was actually progressive in the 1880's? Wild, huh? It was a party of the common man, social justice and abolishing slavery.


This is funny. The Abolitionists were a bunch of Moralizing Religious nuts. After they finished with abolishing slavery, the Abolitionists turned their political clout to outlawing abortion. Susan B. Anthony was a very prominent and outspoken Anti-Abortion crusader.
The New York Times ran editorials in support of Criminalizing the practice of Abortion.

Now which side does that sound like again?

 

Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

Diogenes: touche. Point taken, and I commend you for your wit and smarts. :)

 

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi Writes

"Nov 2, 2009

Nancy...

let's see liberals got it right in: 1776, the Civil War, World War II, voting rights for women, unions (in the early 1900's, not their current incarnations)."

The meaning of the term "Liberal" and "Conservative" has flipped since 1776. At least here in America.

Liberals are nowadays the people who are Stalin like in their desire to make the state Athiestic, A-moral, and All powerful.

Conservatives want to reduce the power of concentrated government, and to affirm the role of Morality in Civil Society.

At this point in history I can promise you this. You will get either Judeo\Christian Morality, or you will get Muslim Morality.

You don't get any other choice. Athiesm is exactly like Anarchy. A temporary transitional system.

But yeah, other than that, nothing I guess.

 

John

Nov 2, 2009

"...warning that the party must be respected and that liberal Republicans were still better than Democrats..."

And this is why the Republicans have lost me. This is the kind of ideological sellout that gave us the Big Government Republicans like Bush and McCain.

If you can't make the government smaller, I don't care if you don't win. Better to simply let the Democrats bankrupt the nation that much faster so we can just start over.

 

Michael

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi, I haven't seen any moderate democrats I would consider fiscally conservative.

I'm a Libertarian so I don't agree with Democrats or Republicans. I'm young, a veteran, an athiest, and I'm firmly against abortion. So far I'm having a pretty hard time finding a candidate at any level I can get behind. Ron Paul is probably the closest I can think of.

At the end of the day I'd like to live (and have my kids grow up)in a country that hasn't been bankrupted by big government and big spending. All of the other issues are secondary to that.

 

Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

See, I don't see that AT ALL from the Democratic party. No, I was FAAAR more worried about a fascist police state under Bush than I am under Democrats. I am mainly a libertarian: I ABHOR the War on Drugs and the "War on Terror."

For those of you afraid of Islamic terrorism, please, be real...only China or Russia could wage war with the U.S. These terrorists are small timers. They will NEVER pull off a 9/11 again.

 

willis cook

Nov 2, 2009

"But you never explain how Hoffman and his tea baggin' ilk, who are pretty darn far to the right, will appeal to those moderates, who are crucial to the base."

Apparently you think your little potty mouth is clever. If it is intended to galvanize us conservatives into intensifying our efforts, mission accomplished.

 

willis

Nov 2, 2009

"For those of you afraid of Islamic terrorism, please, be real...only China or Russia could wage war with the U.S. These terrorists are small timers. They will NEVER pull off a 9/11 again."

Why not Yoshimi. Could it be because of the "War on Terror" we've been waging against them. Could the real reason you oppose the "War on Terror" be because you support the terrorists?

 

Nov 2, 2009

I am Not worried about an Islamic war or terrorism. I am worried that the Islamics will do here, exactly what they are doing in Europe.

Immigrate, out-breed us, then take over the society by superior numbers and far more aggressive political tactics.

England is lost. The liberal states of Europe just committed suicide, and they don't realize it yet.

 

We the People

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi, I sure hope you are right about another 9/11 but I think if the people in power share your delusional view of our ability to stop terrorists then we are in for just that. Pride goeth before the fall my friend.

 

We the People

Nov 2, 2009

Liberals will believe anything except reality.

 

Diogenes

Nov 2, 2009

I am also worried that IDIOTS, (Obama,Pelosi etc.) who've never ran so much as a lemonade stand successfully) are now in charge of our Government, and who will charge us back to the stone age.

 

Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

willis...how DARE you insult me like that? Remember, I am serving this country, serving you. To say that I support people who kill innocent civilians is pathetic and speaks volumes about yourself.

This just proves my point: people like yourself are willing to degrade ANYONE who does not agree with you and call us worse than non-patriots...you so easily call us traitors.

 

f

Nov 2, 2009

So Yoshimi- Lincoln was alive in the "1880s"? That would be news to Mary Todd. Typical leftist ignorance. Have you ever read the book "Stolen Valor"? It would seem to fit you to a tee.

 

Nov 2, 2009

He is apparently not a leftest. He is apparently a libertarian. Besides, I think you are reading too much into a casual slip of the pen.

Libertarians agree with conservatives MOST of the time. Liberals, never.

 

Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

Yes, a slip of the pen (or keyboard, lol).

Look, I want to be a Republican...I'm just asking for the ability to have dissent within the party...you know, Reagan's "big tent."


I've exhausted my time here though, it would seem it serves no further affect beyond provoking more of you at this point. Please, take care and peace.

 

Robert

Nov 2, 2009

I wish I could find a politician that is conservative on financial issues but moderate/liberal on social issues.

 

Brystel

Nov 2, 2009

Is it just me or does Hoffman look like a pedophile?

 

Brystel

Nov 2, 2009

There is no god; but it's cute that some of you conservatards think there is.

 

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi clearly went to public school so I will try to make this very simple:

Classical liberal = modern conservative (a la Locke, Smith, Burke)

Modern liberal = Marxist / statist

 

Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

Sorry...one last post:

Classical liberal = libertarian

Modern conservative = right wing statist

Modern liberal = left wing statist

 

unixdba@aol.com

Nov 2, 2009

by dropping her bid as the republican, then endorsing the democrat, dede SKIFOOZA showed her true colors! good riddance to bad rubbish!

and i'm tired to the bones of so-called moderates. that lack of fire in the belly is precisely what has gotten us into the mess we are in fiscally. let's have some principled fiscal conservatives in charge to reduce government deficits and spending. that is a winning formula for me any day.

 

will_in_sf

Nov 2, 2009

yoshimi, the remarks you are making are inaccurate and nonsensical. you just seem confused. the earlier poster is correct. focus on voting for your principles about fiscal responsibility and less on labels - who is conservative liberal right left libertarian, etc - and youll come out correct everytime.

 

will_in_sf

Nov 2, 2009

yoshimi, your remarks are incorrect and nonsensical. you just seem confused.

the earlier poster who address you on this point was correct.

you should focus more on voting for your principles on fiscal responsibility and less on labels - who is conservative, liberal, right, left, libertarian, etc - and you'll come out correctly in the end every time.

 

Yoshimi

Nov 2, 2009

Thanks for the advice Will...not.

We are ALL capable of interpreting the world as we understand it. Just because I don't see eye to eye with you conservatives does not mean I'm wrong (nor does it mean YOU are right). We are all our OWN arbiters of truth. I have my opinion, allow me to have it just as you have been allowed to have yours.

I tell you what though, I WILL vote my principles...and right now there is NO way I can vote Republican. Libertarian ticket all the way baby ;)

 

Paul Thiel

Nov 2, 2009

I think Yoshimi is right on this one.

I'm going to a tea party rally tonight (never been to a political rally before).

If these guys are just a bunch of Bible thumpers who say we need to get spending under control, I will be very disappointed.

 

Russ

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi,

Reagan's big tent began with the phrase - "My fellow Republicans, and democrats who AGREE with me..."

A political party must have some principles or it is simply an instrument for gaining power.

BTW, please stop trumpeting your service. I too am a current member of the Armed Forces, yet think that true Soldiers are humble and do not constantly call attention to what we do. You have a very "look at me!" quality to your posts.

And all this asking folks about their committment shows how little you understand service. We SERVE the people; we don't use our status as a way to try and squelch debate by those who may not have had the same experiences we have had.

 

Synova

Nov 2, 2009

Big Tent means not throwing out the conservatives. All I seem to hear are demands that Republicans move to the center, ditch the Bible Thumpers, believers, and conservatives... or they can't win. What Big Tent is that?

Someone wants a fiscal conservative?

Well then, friend, you need a *conservative* don't you? Getting "spending under control" doesn't count if someone has faith-cooties?

I'm reading comments by a whole lot of very confused people.

 

Paul Thiel

Nov 2, 2009

Synova,

Could you, perhaps, define what a conservative is then?

My definition of a conservative candidate is pretty simple:

- Demands a fiscally responsibe government
- Committment to individual liberty over predefined outcomes

THAT is a big tent which will keep growing as we see the train wreck of its opposite unfold over the next few years.

I don't have any problems at all with people of faith in this big tent. They are welcome unless they decide to start kicking down the second tent pole.

I don't think this sounds confused.

 

Commonsense Fred

Nov 2, 2009

It's amusing to read of people who say that they are and want to vote for a person who conservative economically and liberal socially. Haven't you realized by now that the ethical/social values are what result in economic conservativism: personal freedom functioning in an accountable manner to a proper authority (God) and the freedom of opportunity for the individual to experience success or failure according to his own choices.

Remove the moral underpinnings and you get a corrupt socialist like Bama and his ilk. His leftist economic theories flow out his vacant morals which he acquired at Harvard and matured at Trinity under Wright.

His desire to destroy our freedom is a result of his arrogant ignorance which has resulted in his awesome stupidity, alias, leftist liberal.

If you want a true economic conservative you'll have to settle for one who has conservative moral values also or you'll never have a consistent economic conservative.

 

Bod

Nov 2, 2009

Peter,

It really doesn't matter that much what any of us define 'conservative' to be. The formula for success here is never going to be finding a politician who meets *your* purity criteria to perfection, because if freedom means anything, it means that people can differ over what freedom (and most importantly, what compromises in that freedom) they are prepared to accept.

Which is why a doctrinaire definition of a 'conservative candidate' ain't gonna work.

 

fbseagull

Nov 2, 2009

Why is it that the people attending Tea Parties are being cast as super conservative? They want to be heard. Republicans, Democrats, Indepentents, and others simpley want our elected officials to LISTEN. Fiscally they may be conservative, socially they are all over the map. Hoffman and Palin are LISTENING unlike the Dims who think they are un-American astroturf. Any Republican moderate who listens to and understands their constituents' concerns, particularly about runaway government spending will have no fear of not being reelected.

 

seenbetterdaze

Nov 2, 2009

Fred, Commonsense stated beautifully!
Economic conservatism without moral values is oxymoronic. Who would vote for an economic conservative who you do not trust as an honorable person? Come to think of it..that IS the problem in DC with our congress people..a dishonorable lot if ever there was one.

 

M. Simon

Nov 2, 2009

"Well then, friend, you need a *conservative* don't you? Getting "spending under control" doesn't count if someone has faith-cooties?"

In Illinois 2004 I had a choice between a Culture Warrior and a Communist.

I chose the Communist. And I don't like Communists.

I'm against liberal social engineers, I'm also against conservative social engineers. When I have a choice between two social engineers I'll take the liberal.

 

M. Simon

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi,

I'm with you and I'm over 65.

 

Paul Thiel

Nov 2, 2009

Commonsense Fred,

I would wager you could not enumerate your "conservative moral values" without the aid of the Bible (and your pastor to interpret it for you).

Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, Thomas Paine, John Adams, Alexander Hammilton, Ethan Allen, etc... would be surprised they are enemies of freedom because they didn't share your moralizing.

 

Elisa

Nov 2, 2009

Good point, fbseagull! By stereotyping that all Tea parties are conservatives liberals hope to demonize & ostracize everyone who opposes their insane policies and agenda.

I have never witnessed a blinder, more corrupt, defiant, arrogant group of people like Obama, Pelos, Reid, Hoyer, et al.

To ignore the will of the people and then step out like Pelosi did few days ago to "unveil" another crappy bill was on healthcare while lying that they "listened" to the American people is the epitomy of obtusity!

 

red

Nov 2, 2009

--when have conservatives EVER been on the right side of history?

Yoshimi, there was once a conflict between the Communists led by the Soviet Union against free countries let by the United States. Conservatives predicted that our freedom would enable us to outperform the enslaved communist countries. Brilliant lefties like you sucked up to the murderous tyrants like Stalin, Krushev, Cosiescau, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro and Che.

We were on the right side of History.

 

red

Nov 2, 2009

BTW mister college educated member of the Armed Forces..

Your sentence ....We rank near the bottom in those who believe evolution is science!....

Is poorly written. Be sure to squeeze in some remedial English classes...

Retired O-4

 

Michael Konkel

Nov 2, 2009

The push back to the republican party is from the people. I have voted republican for many years and was truly dismayed with McCain as my own choice last time. The republican party has to be reborn....it needs to be pure in spirit once again, standing for conservative values....if you look just like the other person, why have an election? Oh Wait, please don't suggest that to Obama now.

 

Victoria

Nov 2, 2009

Tea Party folks want their country back from the far left as far as the far right....BOTH legislators have completely failed this NATION...they have taken care of their own necks and put this whole country at risk from all enemies foreign and domestic.
And right now, with the crew that is in the WH, I think the domestic enemies are more threatening and can do major harm to our Constitutional rights and our nation's soveriegnty.
God bless America, but We, the People have to help ourselves.
Victoria

 

MO Bob

Nov 2, 2009

Most people are missing the point. All politics are local. The voters in up state NY were rejecting her that's why she dropped out. The locals want their candidate to be like them politically. It would be the same if the DNC forced a BLUE DOG on San Fran.

 

mongoose

Nov 2, 2009

Yoshimi,

You ask, "when have conservatives EVER been on the right side of history?"

Then a couple of posts later you mention how Lincoln was a Republican. I guess he was on the wrong side of history?

Reading your posts, it doesn't appear you have any idea what you believe. Your incessant reminder that you are a member of the armed forces is irrelevant. It doesn't give you more credibility. It makes you look like a child wanting to have a conversation with adults.

 

Yoshimi

Nov 3, 2009

dear Mongoose...

Lincoln was a Republican...but not a conservative. He was, in fact, a progressive as I have already addressed.

Sorry mongoose...fail.

 

Hoss

Nov 3, 2009

Newt Gingrich and Mike Steele and Lindsey Graham etc.. are exactly the reason why the GOP is in shambles! People like them are phonies and have no real convictions or beliefs! All they care about is using our political system to make money and don't give a rat's behind about anything else! Greasy politicians who put themselves above our nation need to be booted out for good! The leftist media is totally blind as to what is going on across America and live in a bubble fantasy world they've created. Most Independent voters are conservative and most of America is very much conservative! Liberals and so called " moderates " don't decide anything because they're spineless status quo hacks who do not give a rip about what is going on in our country. It's time for these jelly bellies to shut up and get out of the way!!

 

Paul Thiel

Nov 3, 2009

Well, I went to my first tea party rally last evening. There were several thousand people there and it was really depressing.

We spent the first hour mainly in prayer. The next hour was all about denouncing abortion, gay marriage, illegial aliens, and anyone who doesn't agree with them.

So much for the big tent. I was really hoping, dammit...

 

greg

Nov 3, 2009

I went to the 9/12 tea party in DC. It was a KKK Rally without the hoods. . Big tent my foot.

 

QQWUWYQ

Nov 3, 2009

Aeriusd Dskkr Ioskj wlKJE wue isaou WEAIO wj4 WJH 4Qoiu!

EIWEkljW$!@

 

Suzanne Venker

Nov 3, 2009

For truth in politics, Google "No Bull Mom."

 


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