At least 40 American veterans are dead thanks to bureaucratic delays at Veterans Affairs clinics. But you wouldn’t know it from VA Secretary Gen. Eric Shinseki‘s bland and bloodless demeanor at a Senate hearing Thursday. He droned on like an apathetic office manager fielding complaints about the copier being jammed.

Shinseki told the Senate panel he “can’t remember” getting warnings from federal watchdogs last fall about ghost clinics and double-scheduling schemes. He said he was “not aware” of explosive book-cooking allegations like the ones at a Fort Collins, Colo., VA facility, where employees were ordered to make their records show that veterans got appointments within 14 days of the day requested, whether or not it was true.