Farmville, Va.
Republican vice-presidential candidate Mike Pence restated his running mate Donald Trump’s view that Russian president Vladimir Putin has been a “stronger” leader for Russia than Barack Obama has been for the United States. But in Tuesday’s debate with his Democratic counterpart Tim Kaine, Pence was much harsher in his assessment of Putin’s regime and the Russian political system than Trump has been.
“Look, America is stronger than Russia,” said the Indiana governor in the debate hall at Longwood University. “Our economy is 16 times larger than the Russian economy. America’s political system is superior to the crony corrupt capitalist system in Russia in every way. When Donald Trump and I observe that as I’ve said in Syria, in Iran, in Ukraine, that the small and bullying leader of Russia has been stronger on the world stage than this administration, that’s stating painful facts.”
Pence continued: “That’s not an endorsement of Vladimir Putin. That’s an indictment of the weak and feckless leadership of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.”
Trump has been far less critical, and often laudatory, of Putin, calling the Russian dictator a “leader” and praising his “strength.” That sounds awfully different from Pence’s assessment of Putin as “small and bullying.” In the spin room following the debate, when I asked if Trump shared this assessment of Putin, campaign manager Kellyanne Conway said the Republican ticket’s position is “very clear.”
“What they both said at different times is that, first of all, they’re going to put America first. Very few people in this country feel that that’s the case, that around the globe that we stand tall and we shine through, particularly in our foreign policy and our national security. They both also made very clear, in terms of defeating ISIS, if we can join with Vladimir Putin or anybody else who’s serious and has the strength and resolve to defeat ISIS, and they’ll actually call them radical Islamist terrorists, they won’t call them our, quote, determined enemies,” Conway said.
But does Trump believe, as Pence said Tuesday, that Putin is “small and bullying”? “You’ve heard what Donald Trump’s said about him,” Conway said.
“But he’s said something different,” I replied.
“You want to talk about tickets that don’t agree? Let’s talk about Tim Kaine and his support for the Hyde Amendment,” Conway said, going on to talk about the Virginia senator’s flip-flop on federal funding for abortion services. I asked one more time if Trump agreed with his vice-presidential candidate’s assessment of Putin.
“You know how Donald Trump feels about Putin, they’ve both talked about Putin,” Conway said.
The Trump campaign and its surrogates followed Conway’s lead in insisting there was little daylight on the question of Putin. “Governor Pence has always been consistent that Vladimir Putin is someone who has been a strong, a better leader for his country than Barack Obama has for this country,” said senior advisor Boris Epshteyn, who allowed that Putin is a bully.
“Vladimir is someone who is a bullying leader, and he’s bullying and he’s forcing Russia ahead,” said Epshteyn. “Now, when Donald Trump’s the president, and Governor Pence is the vice president, we will lead from the front. We will be the leaders going forward, and not the other way around.”
When I pressed him on the differences in rhetoric from the two running mates, Epshteyn dismissed it. “You have a candidate for president and a candidate for vice president. You’re parsing words, but the message is exactly the same, that Vladimir Putin is someone who is a strongman and someone who has to be dealt with from a position of strength,” he said.
Trump spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders dismissed the idea Trump had praised Putin. “Nobody has claimed that Vladimir Putin is this great leader. I think that his point was that he was a better leader for his country than Barack Obama had been for our country,” she said. Pressed for more, Huckabee Sanders admitted, “Look, I’m not your foreign policy expert. Senator Sessions is around here and I know he’d be more than happy to talk to you.”
I asked Jeff Sessions, the Alabama senator, if Trump agreed with Pence that Putin is “small and bullying.”
“I don’t know whether he would use that word or not,” Sessions said. “But I don’t think there’s any doubt that Vladimir Putin has acted very recklessly in recent months and actually several years now.”
Sessions added: “I believe that we can have a better relationship with Russia, but it’s going to take a strong president.”
Not everyone with the Trump campaign was entirely aware of Pence’s statement on Putin in the debate. “I’m here to talk about Governor Pence’s performance,” said deputy campaign manager David Bossie, when asked about the statement. “I didn’t hear that exact line. If you give me your card I’ll be happy to talk to you about it later.”
