Rudy Giuliani said he has “no idea” what President Trump told the new Ukrainian president in a phone call that could be the subject of a damning Intelligence Community whistleblower complaint.
Trump’s personal attorney also claimed he acted independently in pressing the Ukrainian government to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, the front-runner in the 2020 Democratic presidential primary, and matters related to Paul Manafort.
Giuliani made an appearance Thursday evening on CNN, clashing with host Chris Cuomo about a Washington Post report that said Trump communicated with a foreign leader about Ukraine in which he made a “promise” that was troubling enough to trigger a whistleblower complaint.
“I have no idea. I never asked him that. I don’t know if he did and I wouldn’t care if he did. He had every right to do it as the president of the United States,” Giuliani said of Trump’s call at the root of the controversy.
Three Democrat-led House Committees were already investigating a call Trump had with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky less than three weeks before the complaint was submitted in August as part of an inquiry into Trump’s and Giuliani’s role in “two politically-motivated investigations under the guise of anti-corruption activity.”
These involve a possible attempt to improperly pressure the Ukrainian government to assist the president’s reelection campaign by investigating the ties of Biden’s son Hunter Biden to an energy company owned by a Ukrainian oligarch. They are also looking into whether Trump and Giuliani sought the “prosecution of Ukrainians who provided key evidence against Mr. Trump’s convicted campaign manager Paul Manafort,” who is in prison for illegal lobbying on behalf of Ukrainian interests and financial fraud.
“As the 2020 election draws closer, President Trump and his personal attorney appear to have increased pressure on the Ukrainian government and its justice system in service of President Trump’s reelection campaign, and the White House and the State Department may be abetting this scheme,” House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Eliot Engel, and House Oversight Committee Chairman Elijah Cummings wrote in a letters to the White House and State Department in early September.
Arguing that “we have two outstanding allegations of massive corruption,” Giuliani told Cuomo, “I did what I did on my own.”
Giuliani, who began representing Trump during special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation, also said he only told Trump about his effort after the fact.
“Three months after I found out about it,” Giuliani said, was about when he informed Trump. “And then I found out it was true by getting signed sworn statements from five people in the Ukraine who said, ‘We were brought into the White House, the Obama White House, and we were told go dig up dirt on Trump and Manafort in January of 2016.'”
Between insults, Cuomo repeatedly pressed Giuliani to show him the affidavits. “I’m not going to give you the affidavits. I want to give them in court,” Giuliani said.
Trump has also dismissed the reporting about the whistleblower complaint.
“Virtually anytime I speak on the phone to a foreign leader, I understand that there may be many people listening from various U.S. agencies, not to mention those from the other country itself,” Trump tweeted earlier on Thursday. “Knowing all of this, is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader while on such a potentially ‘heavily populated’ call.”
As part of his investigation, Schiff has sought the transcript and the list of participants on the call with Zelensky, an actor who took office in May. Schiff is also leading the charge in pursuing information about the complaint deemed to be of “urgent concern” by Intelligence Community Inspector General Michael Atkinson.
Acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire has so far resisted Schiff’s demands to hand over the whistleblower complaint and the inspector general’s analysis, arguing its content is beyond his jurisdiction. Maguire is expected to testify before the House and Senate intelligence panels next week.
