During a townhall event today with MSNBC’s Chris Matthews, Donald Trump said “there has to be some form of punishment” for women who obtain abortions. Trump quickly reversed himself after pro-life advocates pointed out that they have long opposed imposing criminal penalties on a woman who undergoes an abortion, rather than the abortionist who performs it.
“[T]he doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman,” Trump said in a press release a few hours after he said the woman “has to be” punished. “The woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb,” Trump continued. “My position has not changed – like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions.”
Trump’s latest flip-flop on abortion was yet another sign he hasn’t given the issue much thought. Trump had supported partial-birth and third-trimester abortion, but he says he became pro-life after he saw that an unwanted child became a “total superstar“:
During the first Republican presidential debate, Trump explained that he “evolved” on the issue at some unknown point in the last 16 years. “Friends of mine years ago were going to have a child, and it was going to be aborted. And it wasn’t aborted. And that child today is a total superstar, a great, great child. And I saw that. And I saw other instances,” Trump said. “I am very, very proud to say that I am pro-life.” When the Daily Caller’s Jamie Weinstein asked Trump if he would have become pro-life if that child had been a loser instead of a “total superstar,” Trump replied: “Probably not, but I’ve never thought of it. I would say no, but in this case it was an easy one because he’s such an outstanding person.”
During the campaign, Trump has waffled on defunding Planned Parenthood and suggested he’s open to picking a pro-abortion running mate.
Here’s the full transcript of Trump’s exchange with Matthews today:
MATTHEWS: Should the woman be punished? For having an abortion? TRUMP: Well look. MATTHEWS: This is not something you can dodge. TRUMP: It’s not— MATTHEWS: If you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under the law. Should abortion be punished? TRUMP: Well people in certain parts of the Republican party and conservatives Republicans would say, yes they should be punished. MATTHEWS: How about you? TRUMP: I would say that it’s a very serious problem and it’s a problem that we have to decide on. It’s very hard— MATTHEWS: But you’re for banning it. TRUMP: Are you going to say, well wait, are you going to say put them in jail? Is that the punishment you’re talking about? MATTHEWS: No I’m asking you because you say you want to ban it. What does that mean? TRUMP: I am against. I am pro-life. Yes. I am pro-life. MATTHEWS: How do you ban abortion? How do you actually do it? TRUMP: You know you’ll go back to a position like where they had where people perhaps will go to illegal places. MATTHEWS: Yeah. TRUMP: But you have to ban it. I’m against— MATTHEWS: Yeah you ban it but they go to someone who flunked out of medical school and- TRUMP: Are you Catholic? MATTHEWS: Yes, I think I-I-I TRUMP: And how do you feel about the Catholic church’s position? MATTHEWS: I accept the teaching authority of my church on moral issues. TRUMP: I know, but do you know what their position on abortion is? MATTHEWS: Yes, I do. TRUMP: And do you concur with that position? MATTHEWS: I concur with their moral position but legally I want to get to the question— TRUMP: No but let me ask you. What do you say about— MATTHEWS: It’s not funny. TRUMP: It’s really not funny. What do you say about your church? They’re very very strict. MATTHEWS: The churches make their moral judgments, but you’re running for President of the United States to become Chief Executive of the United States. Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no, as a principle? TRUMP: The answer is there has to be some form of punishment. MATTHEWS: For the woman? TRUMP: Yes. MATTHEWS: 10 cents, 10 years, what? TRUMP: I don’t know. That I don’t know. MATTHEWS: Well why not, you take positions on everything else.
