The Australian diplomat whose tip about George Papadopoulos effectively started the counterintelligence investigation into President Trump’s campaign in July 2016 disagrees with the notion that the FBI was “spying” on the Trump team.
“I wouldn’t imagine so, no,” Alexander Downer, now a former government employee, said in an interview with Sky News. “The’s FBI’s not — it’s not quite like the Australian Federal Police. It’s not a spy agency. That’s sort of confusing the FBI with the CIA. I mean, why would the FBI be spying on any campaign? It seems so improbable, doesn’t it?”
Host Andrew Bolt wasn’t convinced. “Well I don’t know. I did see the FBI did leak to the New York Times. And they sent a cloaked investigator to follow up your meeting with Papadopoulos,” he said, referring to a recent report that said the FBI sent an undercover investigator to meet with Papadopoulos, a Trump campaign adviser, during the 2016 election.
“We don’t know,” Downer said. “And who knows who leaked, too? You never know the answer to that, do you?”
The debate over the term began at a hearing last month when Attorney General William Barr said “spying did occur” on the Trump campaign. He clarified that he hasn’t proven there was any wrongdoing and is looking into alleged misconduct within the Justice Department and FBI, but his “spying” declaration riled Democrats and others. Former FBI Director James Comey said this week, “The FBI doesn’t spy, the FBI investigates.” But after the Times report came out, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper conceded that what the FBI had been doing “meets the dictionary definition of spying.”
Papadopoulos allegedly met Downer at London’s Kensington Wine Rooms in May 2016 and told him that the Russians had damaging information on Hillary Clinton, Trump’s Democratic rival in the 2016 election. Two months later when WikiLeaks published stolen emails from the Democratic National Committee, Downer informed the U.S. about what he was told. This prompted the FBI’s counterintelligence investigation, called Crossfire Hurricane, in July 2016 and was later wrapped in special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation. Mueller concluded that inquiry this year having not found sufficient proof to establish criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia.
The man who informed Papadopoulos of this “dirt” was Maltese academic Joseph Mifsud, who has long been suspected of deep ties to Russian intelligence. Although Papadopoulos, who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, told investigators Mifsud talked to him about the Russians having “thousands” of Clinton emails, Mifsud denied to the FBI he knew or mentioned anything about emails.
Questions have been raised about whether Downer might have misled the U.S. government about what Papadopoulos told him and why he waited two months to relay the information. Downer, who called himself a “warrior for the Western alliance,” said Papadopoulos told him only that the Russians were planning to release information that would be damaging to Clinton’s campaign, not that Russia was colluding.
Papadopoulos has said he was “suspicious” of Downer and that the diplomat recorded him illegally with his phone.
Downer, who noted three people were present so he has a witness, denied making a recording. “There’s no defense for him saying it’s some sort of weird conspiracy. I mean, it’s what he told me,” he said.
