FARMVILLE, Va. — Tim Kaine and Mike Pence repeatedly interrupted each other Tuesday as they squared off in a testy debate between vice presidential candidates.
The Democratic and Republican running mates attacked each other almost from opening bell, going after presidential nominees Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump they were on stage to represent while also indicting each other’s records as elected officials.
Pence and Kaine argued over the economy, foreign policy and the biggest political challenges facing Clinton and Trump. For Clinton, that includes her record as President Obama’s secretary of state; for Trump, that includes his sharp rhetoric and behavior on the campaign trail.
Kaine repeatedly brought up Trump questioning whether President Obama was born in the United States, describing it as painful to African Americans and his demeaning comments over the years directed at women.
Kaine raised Trump’s failure develop a plan to defeat the Islamic State and his fascination with dictators like Russia’s Vladimir Putin.
But Kaine frequently interrupted Pence — more than the governor interrupted him. That made it difficult for the Republican to speak, but also potentially detracted from his nice guy image and made him look defensive. Pence appeared calm and in command. It was, in a sense, a role reversal from last week’s presidential debate that Clinton excelled in.
“Donald Trump supports our troops,” Pence said, at one point, during a sharp discussion on national security.
“He won’t pay taxes,” Kaine interjected, referring to the New York Times report on Trump’s 1995 tax returns that suggests the Republican might not have paid income taxes for 18 years.
The Clinton campaign’s strategy for Kaine going in was to corner Pence — to force him to either defend Trump’s several controversies or agree with them.
If Pence defended Trump, Democrats viewed it as a success because it would show no daylight between the two on issues that they believe are the biggest hurdles for the Republicans as they seek to come from behind and win the presidency. If Pence declined to defend Trump, it would show how politically radioactive the presidential nominee is because even his own running mate wouldn’t do so.
Kaine scored some points in that regard as he repeatedly brought up the attacks on Trump that the Clinton campaign will bear the most fruit between now and Election Day. But after 90 minutes, Pence was the consensus winner, at least as judged by focus groups, political analysts and even some Democratic activists who lamented that Kaine’s performance overshadowed what they believed was the the Virginia senator’s better substance on the issues.
“Man, if Kaine wasn’t being such an a—hole interrupting, he’d be winning on substance. Pence literally hasn’t defended Trump once,” tweeted Markos Moulitsas founder of the liberal weblog, Daily Kos.
Democrats could be breathing a sigh of relief that vice presidential debates tend not to have much influence on a race, and that Clinton has two more chances to repeat her winning performance against Trump, beginning this Sunday in a town hall style debate at Washington University in St. Louis.
Tuesday’s exchange is the only debate of vice presidential contenders, with their mission — more than anything — being to make voters take notice.
The 90-minute faceoff comes at a pivotal moment.
Democrat Hillary Clinton is surging and Republican Donald Trump is reeling more than a week following a subpar performance in the first presidential debate, with only weeks to go until Election Day. But vice presidential debates rarely alter the trajectory of a campaign or change voters’ minds about the nominees.
That gives Kaine an opportunity to continue Clinton’s momentum. It creates a major challenge for Pence, who arrives here aiming to revive Trump’s sagging fortunes.
“The VP debate only matters if people watch, listen and see a measurable difference between the candidates,” said Frank Luntz, a GOP pollster. “Frankly, no one is paying attention to tonight’s debate because the presidential contest is so contentious and so extraordinarily different from anything we’ve ever seen before.”
Kaine, 58, and Pence, 57, bring a similar level experience into this evening’s nationally televised prime time debate, set on the small campus of Longwood University in central Virginia.
Kaine is a senator from Virginia and former governor and lieutenant governor of the state. Pence is the governor of Indiana and former congressman who served as the No. 4 House Republican leader. Both are mild-mannered and friendly; neither prefers the no-holds-barred style that has come to characterize 2016.
Yet with questions about their qualifications for the presidency put to rest by this level of political experience, that’s exactly where the vice presidential debate could be headed.
Clinton is driving attacks on Trump’s demeaning behavior toward women and refusal to publicize his tax returns — now amplified by a New York Times report suggesting he hasn’t paid income taxes in years. Trump is raising Clinton’s use of a private email server while secretary of state, and lately sought to characterize her as an enabler of her husband’s past philandering.
At least a few of these topics are bound to come up Tuesday evening, although Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta emphasized that Kaine’s role is to make the case for the Democratic nominee’s agenda.
“He’s definitely going to draw some contrasts, but mostly he’s coming here tonight to tell the American people their plans for what they can do,” he told reporters a few hours before the debate.
Vice presidential debates over the years have featured their share of memorable moments.
In 1988, Republican Sen. Dan Quayle attempted to put qualms about his age and experience to rest by comparing himself to President John Kennedy, who was in his 40s when he was elected in 1960. Democratic Sen. Lloyd Bentsen cut Quayle down to size with one of the most famous lines in modern debate history.
“Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy; I knew Jack Kennedy; Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine; senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy,” Bentsen said. It had no impact.
The man at the top of Quayle’s ticket, then Vice President George H.W. Bush, went on to defeat Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis in a landslide.
The presidential nominees typically dominate the campaign, with their running mates playing supporting roles. That’s particularly the case in this race, with dominating figures like Trump, a brash New York real estate developer, and Clinton, a former first lady, New York senator and secretary of state.
It’s another reason why it could be especially difficult for Pence to deliver a breakthrough.
“This debate is about Gov. Pence’s ability to put the campaign’s message back on track after a rough week,” said Brett O’Donnell, a Republican consultant and debate coach.
In Kaine and Pence, Americans tuning into the debate will see smooth operators with keen communications skills.
Kaine worked his way up in Virginia politics, during a period when it was still dominated by the Republican Party at the statewide level.
Kaine’s first elected office was a seat on the Richmond City Council. He was elected governor in 2005, appointed Democratic National Committee chairman by President Obama in 2009 and elected senator in 2012.
Although Kaine’s governing record is liberal, he’s known as Midwestern nice (Kaine grew up in Kansas) with friendships on both sides of the aisle who shies away from cutting attacks.
“Kaine is not really a negative guy, but I’m curious to see if he’ll go after Pence, really challenge the guy, to see how he’ll defend Trump’s erratic actions and temperament,” Democratic operative Ed Espinoza said.
Pence was a conservative talk radio host before jumping to Congress. Nevertheless, he’s also known as courteous and reserved, whose favorite saying is: “I’m conservative but I’m not angry about it.”
Pence isn’t a policy innovator, but because of his background in radio is a talented communicator who rarely gets caught in a gaffe or other misstatement.
He’s also an adept politician, having transformed from a conservative rebel when he first entered the House to a more pragmatic Republican with relationships across the spectrum.
“You’ve seen that in the campaign: No matter what Trump says, Pence is able to come up with something to say about it,” said Michael Steel, a Republican operative who advised John Boehner when he was speaker of the House.
