ALEXANDRIA, Va. — The federal judge hearing the case against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort pressed Justice Department lawyers on Friday to explain why they think they did not exceed the scope of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russia meddling, and openly wondered if their real goal was to squeeze Manafort to get to President Trump.
“You don’t really care about Mr. Manafort’s bank fraud … You really care about getting information Mr. Manafort can give you that would reflect on Mr. Trump and lead to his prosecution or impeachment,” said U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III.
At another point, Ellis accused department lawyers of “lying” about the scope of their investigation.
“This investigation that had led to this indictment… has nothing to do with Russia or the campaign,” said Ellis. “We said this is what our investigation is about, but we’re not bound by it, and we were lying. You care about what information Mr. Manafort can give you that could lead to Mr. Trump.”
“C’mon man!” Ellis added for emphasis.
The judge consistently pushed back against Michael Dreeben, the deputy solicitor general who was arguing on behalf of Mueller, to explain why the charges he was pursing related to bank and tax fraud charges dating back to 2005 and 2007.
Dreeben admitted that Manafort had been under federal government watch before the appointment of Mueller in May 2017, and which time his team took over the investigation, but made it a point that the special counsel is still part of the Justice Department.
“We are the Justice Department. We are not separate,” Dreeban said.
But Manafort’s lawyer Kevin Downing argued that the special counsel was operating with “unfettered power.” At one point, Manafort leaned over to mouth those two words to his defense counsel as the government was arguing. Ellis picked up on that term.
“We don’t want anyone with unfettered power. It’s unlikely you are going to persuade me the special counsel has unlimited power,” Ellis said. “The American people feel very strongly about anyone having unfettered power.”
Manafort, 69, has plead not guilty to the 18-count indictment lodged against him. He has also pleaded not guilty to charges brought against him by Mueller in Washington.
Ellis also brought up the criminal investigation against Trump’s personal attorney Michael Cohen. Mueller’s team referred those charges to New York authorities, and Ellis wanted to know what made that different than the Manafort case in Alexandria.
Dreeban argued that what is in the Manafort case is “factually linked” to the areas of their investigation, whereas the Cohen case is not.
“We followed the money where it led,” Dreeban said, citing Manafort’s ties to Ukraine.
Ellis did not decide whether to dismiss the charges against Manafort, and instead said he wants to see an unredacted copy of the Aug. 2, 2017, memo signed by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein in the next two weeks. The memo, signed by Rosenstein, was made public in federal in Washington, and details Mueller’s jurisdiction beyond the May 17, 2017, public memo originally appointing the special counsel.
The memo, signed by Rosenstein, was made public in federal in Washington, and details Mueller’s jurisdiction beyond the May 17, 2017, public memo originally appointing the special counsel.
Dreeben argued the May memo is missing details about just how far Mueller can go because they are part of the “counterintelligence’ and “national security” investigation having been conducted by the Justice Department, and could not be made public.
But the August memo is heavily redacted, and that is what Ellis demanded to see before he makes a decision to dismiss the case. The judge reminded the court that he is able to see classified information.
The federal government argued that what is redacted does not pertain to Manafort, to which Ellis replied, “I’ll be the judge of that.”
