President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani said Kurt Volker was aware of the effort to get Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son Hunter.
That contradicts the former U.S. special envoy to Ukraine’s testimony to Congress, when Volker said, “At no time was I aware of or took part in an effort to urge Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Biden.”
Giuliani told the Washington Examiner he disputed that Volker would’ve been unaware of this effort related to Ukraine and the Bidens — and the texts and testimony Volker provided indicate Volker was likely aware of what Giuliani was up to.
In his testimony, Volker distanced himself from the controversial July phone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in which Trump asked for a “favor” from Ukraine, urged Zelensky to look into any Ukrainian involvement in the 2016 election, and suggested the Ukrainians investigate allegations of corruption related to the Bidens.
But Giuliani had publicly advocated for Ukraine to investigate allegations of corruption related to the Bidens for months, both on Twitter and in numerous television appearances and news articles, and Giuliani and Volker spoke multiple times.
A person familiar with Volker’s entire congressional testimony told the Washington Examiner that Volker was not aware of every conversation that Giuliani was having to pressure Ukraine to investigate Biden, that Volker didn’t take the Trump attorney’s public commentary seriously, and Volker didn’t see Giuliani’s activities as part of an official U.S. effort.
“New President of Ukraine still silent on investigation of Ukrainian interference in 2016 election and alleged Biden bribery of President Poroshenko,” Giuliani tweeted in June. “Time for leadership and investigate both if you want to purge how Ukraine was abused by Hillary and Obama people.”
Volker considered that tweet and similar comments from Giuliani venting as bluster, not actual pressure being put on Ukraine, said the person familiar with Volker’s discussion with lawmakers.
“Volker’s answers sound contradictory,” Giuliani told the Washington Examiner in a text message. “First he says he didn’t know, then he says I told him? Don’t understand?”
Volker also testified that “Vice President Biden was never a topic of discussion” in his texts with U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland and U.S. chargé d’affaires to Ukraine William Taylor. A person who knew what Volker told Congress said that Biden may have been discussed by Volker, Sondland, and Taylor in meetings or by phone, but only in the context of all of them agreeing that the Ukrainian investigations shouldn’t be about Biden specifically or about 2020.
The messages sent and received by Volker mention “investigations” four times — with an investigation into Burisma mentioned twice. Giuliani told the Washington Examiner “it was certainly understood,” including by Volker, that Giuliani wanted Burisma to be investigated in connection with Hunter Biden’s $50,000 per month position and because of Joe Biden’s actions in Ukraine threatening to withhold $1 billion in loans while pushing for then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to fire Ukrainian prosecutor Viktor Shokin.
The Biden camp and many others have countered that Shokin was widely seen by the United States and Europe — and inside Ukraine — as ineffective, corrupt, and a hindrance to Ukraine’s progress. Ukraine’s Parliament removed Shokin in 2016.
Volker and Giuliani never talked directly about Biden after the July meeting, but Volker and Giuliani did continue to talk about Burisma, a person familiar with what Volker told the House Intelligence Committee said, and Volker believed the Biden issue and the Burisma issue were not synonymous.
Volker testified he didn’t listen in on the July 25 phone call, and he was unaware of Biden being mentioned until the transcript was released.
Volker testified he learned in May that Giuliani “planned to travel to Ukraine to look into” these issues. Giuliani’s proposed trip became national news at the time, with the New York Times reporting Giuliani wanted Ukraine to investigate 2016 and the Bidens and Burisma. Giuliani said that “we’re not meddling in an election, we’re meddling in an investigation.” Dozens of articles and television segments made it clear Giuliani was part of an effort to push Ukraine to investigate the Bidens.
“Explain to me why Biden shouldn’t be investigated if his son got millions from a Russian loving crooked Ukrainian oligarch while he was VP and point man for Ukraine,” Giuliani tweeted in May in response to a Democratic senator. “Ukrainians are investigating and your fellow Dems are interfering. Election is 17 months away. Let’s answer it now.”
Giuliani’s calls for Ukraine to investigate the Bidens continued through the summer and the fall.
In the wake of Volker’s testimony, Republicans pointed to his claim there was no quid pro quo related to withholding military aid to Ukraine, while Democrats pointed to Volker’s assertion that Biden’s actions in Ukraine weren’t improperly influenced by his son’s business dealings.
