Outgoing Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson admitted Wednesday that President Obama and the administration “ultimately” is most at-fault for the Russian cyber attacks during the U.S. election season this year – attacks that some Democrats have said cost Hillary Clinton the Oval Office.

MSNBC host Rachel Maddow posed the question in a rare media interview with Johnson, asking whether he would label Russia’s activity a “massive national security failure” and if so, who was to blame for it.