Former FBI General Counsel James Baker admitted on Friday that he is “nervous” about DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz’s investigation into the conduct of the DOJ and the FBI during the Trump-Russia probe.
Sitting down with with Lawfare’s Benjamin Wittes in a crowded room at the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C., Baker said he is “assuming that they will dig and find stuff” and that “we’ll try to sort it out and see what mistakes were made.” But Baker defended the FBI’s actions, including its use of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
Horowitz’s investigation is particularly focused on alleged FISA abuse and the reliance on British ex-spy Christopher Steele in FISA applications targeting Trump campaign associate Carter Page. Steele’s dossier was funded in part by the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign through the Perkins Coie law firm and the opposition research group Fusion GPS. The investigation is expected to finish in May or June.
Wittes said that Baker “had expressed great confidence in the way you guys conducted yourselves, in the integrity of these fundamental judgments, in the opening with respect to two separate investigations and with the respect to the handling of this FISA application.” Wittes then asked Baker: “So, how nervous are you about the IG?”
Baker said he is “always nervous about the IG,” adding that “they’re coming in after the fact to look at what we did.” At the time, he said, the FBI was “trying to do it in real time and having the pressure to deal with these threats as they were coming.”
Baker contended that he was “confident in the judgments that I made at the time based on the information that I had available to me.” But he left open the possibility that others may have engaged in wrongdoing, saying, “I’m sure they will find things that I didn’t know at the time and maybe that others didn’t know at the time.”
“There were facts that existed in the Bureau that were known by certain people that weren’t known by others including me, that’s certainly possible and that happens frequently,” Baker said. “And so, I’m assuming that they will dig and find stuff like that. So, we’ll try to sort it out and see what mistakes were made.”
Horowitz, who launched his investigation in 2018, said he would “examine the Justice Department’s and the FBI’s compliance with legal requirements, and with applicable DOJ and FBI policies and procedures, in applications filed with the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court relating to a certain U.S. person [Carter Page].”
Horowitz said he would “review information that was known to the DOJ and the FBI at the time the applications were filed from or about an alleged FBI confidential source. Additionally, the OIG will review the DOJ’s and FBI’s relationship and communications with the alleged source as they relate to the FISC applications.” This “alleged FBI confidential source” is Steele.
During the event Friday, Baker defended the FBI’s use of the Steele dossier and stressed that he examined the FISA warrant applications on Page before they got signed and sent to the court. He said he was “comfortable” with their contents and was confident that the process remained “lawful.” Regarding the FISA court, Baker said: “These are federal judges for goodness’ sake. They know how to evaluate wiretap applications. … These are serious, serious judges.”
On the bureau’s handling of Steele, Baker said, “We’re not stupid. The FBI. We’re not stupid.”
And Baker said the FBI was careful in the way it used Steele’s reporting. “We have an obligation to take that information seriously and to be highly skeptical … You go to work … You try to validate it … We don’t just swallow it hook, line, and sinker. … We spent a lot of time trying to vet that information line by line,” he said.
“We are the Federal Bureau of Investigations, not the Federal Bureau of Conclusions,” Baker said defensively.
Steele has come under increased scrutiny in recent weeks. The Wall Street Journal reported that Horowitz “is homing in on” and “has been asking witnesses about” the FBI’s “treatment of information” provided by Steele. And the New York Times reported that the FBI reached out to some of Steele’s foreign sources and as early as January 2017 agents had reportedly concluded that some of the dossier’s contents may have been based upon “rumors and hearsay” which were “passed from source to source.” The agents believed that some of Steele’s information may have even been based upon “Russian disinformation.”
Baker mentioned that he’s faced investigations before. “I’ve been investigated — or matters that I’ve worked on have been investigated — many times by the Inspector General. It’s not a pleasant process. It’s just not. The people are pleasant but the process is not the most enjoyable,” he said.
Baker may have been referring to an alleged criminal leaks investigation that had been opened on him, which had been reported on as early as December 2017. He confirmed the existence of an investigation but declined to provide many specifics, saying, “Yes there is an investigation with respect to matters in which I was involved that is still open that I have cooperated fully with. I met with the investigative team for many hours over many days. That took place about a year and a half ago.”
“I haven’t heard anything since then … other than to hear from the Department that the matter is still open.” Baker said. “I am confident that I did nothing wrong and nothing illegal.”
Baker was appointed as the FBI general counsel in January 2014 and was later reassigned by FBI Director Christopher Wray in December 2017. Last year, Baker resigned from the FBI and has since written for Lawfare and joined the R Street Institute.
As the event ended, Baker summed up his thoughts on all of these investigations. “Hindsight is 20/20,” he remarked.
