Defense Secretary James Mattis, who once told President Trump he found beer and cigarettes more useful in interrogation than waterboarding, has not changed his views on torture, the Pentagon said Thursday.
Mattis’ position on the use of torture is significant because in an interview with ABC news Wednesday, Trump said he would defer to Mattis and CIA Director Mike Pompeo on the question of whether to bring back “enhanced interrogation” techniques, such as waterboarding, for captured terror suspects.
“I have a general who I have great respect for, General Mattis, who said — I was a little surprised — who said he’s not a believer in torture,” Trump said.
Mattis and the Joint Chiefs will meet with the president Friday afternoon at the Pentagon followed by a ceremonial swearing-in in the Hall of Heroes.
While the president said he has spoken to “others in intelligence” who he said are “big believers” in waterboarding, he said Mattis’ judgment would carry great weight.
“That being said, I’m going with General Mattis. I’m going with my secretary,” he said.
The question of torture didn’t come up in Mattis’s Senate confirmation hearing this month, but in a written response to the Armed Services Committee, Mattis said, “I fully support using the Army Field Manual as the single standard for all U.S. military interrogations.”
The law restricts interrogation techniques to those listed in the Army Field Manual, which does not include waterboarding, which many consider torture.
“His views, and his commitment to upholding those laws have not changed,” said Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a Pentagon spokesman.
But Mattis is not the only voice in the debate. Trump’s CIA Director Mike Pompeo will also weigh in, and while in his confirmation Pompeo agreed waterboarding and other outlawed interrogation techniques are illegal, he agreed they could become legal if the laws were changed.
And even Mattis’ answer came with a caveat. He specified the Army Field Manual should be used for all military interrogations, leaving the door open a crack to a separate standard for the CIA.
But for now nothing can change without an act of Congress.
As Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain, R-Ariz., put it this week, “The President can sign whatever executive orders he likes. But the law is the law. We are not bringing back torture in the United States of America.”
