Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates said that rich countries need to switch from real beef to synthetic, plant-based alternatives as a way to combat climate change.

“I do think all rich countries should move to 100% synthetic beef. You can get used to the taste difference, and the claim is they’re going to make it taste even better over time,” Gates said during an interview with MIT Technology Review. “Eventually, that green premium is modest enough that you can sort of change the [behavior of] people or use regulation to totally shift the demand.”