Long-form podcasts can save civil discourse in the classroom

We’re about to begin another school year, and sometime before late August, thinking educators across the country should ask themselves the following question: How am I going to foster high quality discourse in my classroom over the next nine months? Harmless as it may appear, it addresses a serious issue in education. At this point, anyone who’s been remotely tuned into the discursive tenor on college campuses knows that a change needs to be made, and quickly.

In a recent article, Louis Sarkozy shows us what the issue looks like on the ground. Instead of sitting in classes that “stir up fact-heavy debate and the free flow of ideas,” the current New York University student claims his peers use these venues to engage in “all out moral and ethical warfare that necessitates humiliation, scare tactics, and reprehension.” It’s a bleak report on an issue that I thought would’ve altered its course by now. Perhaps the summer haze of beach days and nonstop seafood has allowed the seriousness of what’s at stake to drift from my mind. But I won’t allow it. Teachers, while blessed with 10 or so workless weeks each year, must actively reflect on the state of education when given ample time. So allow me to do my part.

If we truly have a problem (and I think we do) a solution must be a top priority. While laughing at the truly ridiculous behavior that’s consistently occurred on campuses in the last year might be entertaining, Nikki Haley reminded us yesterday that it’s ultimately an unproductive endeavor. “This kind of speech,” she proposed, “isn’t leadership — it’s the exact opposite.” And she’s right. Triggering students and professors who seem intent on remaining upset about any number of global catastrophes isn’t going to solve any problems.

But long-form podcasts might.

I’ll admit this sounds like an absurd, wildly oversimplified response to a campus culture few of us understand. But bear with me.

Long-form podcasts, at their core, are not interviews, but rather conversations in which two or more participants discuss subjects of mutual interest. Some run for an hour, while others fall just short of four. The new medium, one we’ve never seen before, has the potential to save classroom discourse.

Think about it for a second. The “fact-heavy” debates Sarkozy pines for are only possible when two sides of a contentious topic have time to exhaustively delineate their respective positions. But students ensconced in social media are simply not conditioned to approach arguments in that fashion. Instead, as Sarkozy suggests, a medium like Facebook provides fertile soil for hate messages and public shout-downs. It seems that some students, instructed in the ways of online debate, continue to manifest these shallow discursive habits in the real world. And it’s understandable.

Pick the prickliest political topic you can think of, and try to have a nuanced discussion about it over posts on Instagram. Or, simply let me spare you the agony of discovering for yourself that it’s impossible. On a medium like Facebook, for instance, responses to controversial posts actually dwindle in size and prominence on the page once submitted. This is akin to having two people engaged in a debate back slowly away from each other until their voices eventually fade away, and any hope for communication is lost.

The long-form podcast, however, shatters the strictures of communication that suffocate productive conversation in this age of social media. Take “The Joe Rogan Experience” as a case in point, and how the former “Fear Factor” host engages in discussion polarizing figures such as Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Ben Shapiro, Bret Weinstein, and even Ted Nugent. His guests are given the space to clearly articulate their beliefs. Instead of screaming like an angry protester, Rogan listens. And so do the millions of people who tune in every month.

The point is this: Debate on campus is suffering, and teachers around the country need to help. If you’re a professor, my thoughts are with you, but if you teach high school, realize the responsibility that rests on your shoulders. The students you teach will either improve or continue to undermine the quality of our nation’s future discourse. So keep social media out of the classroom. It’s poisonous to the educational environment. Push your students to use facts and grapple with complex topics, giving credit to their opponents when it’s due along the way. Deliberately curb the frantic pace that lends itself to heated exchanges and flaring tempers.

In the coming months, show your students how to slow down, open their ears, and listen. With any luck, we might be able to right the ship.

Michael O’Keefe is a boarding school English teacher and football coach. A native New Englander, he has worked in both northeast Ohio and the Mid-Atlantic region for the last five years.

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