As an educator, it would be irresponsible if I didn’t address the fact that “The Joe Rogan Experience,” which I recommended for educational use last week, contains some activities that aren’t what most people would dub classroom appropriate. Sometimes the host smokes and drinks on air, or talks conspiracy theories with guests like Alex Jones. Let me be abundantly clear: These were not the episodes I had in mind when I recommended the podcast as an educational tool. It seemed so obvious to me, and if anyone reading my words thought I planned to endorse illegal behavior in front of my students this year, faith in educators has reached frighteningly low levels. Hopefully we’re not there just yet, but if you’re curious as to why I selected Rogan’s show specifically, allow me to explain.
Since I began listening to his podcast three years ago, I’ve always thought Joe Rogan would make an excellent student. Is it a little creepy to think that a veteran stand-up comic, martial arts enthusiast, archer, and self made multimillionaire would make for an interesting member of my freshman English class? Probably, considering he’s fifty years old. But hear me out.
In episode after episode, the host displays two crucial academic attributes that any good educator should seek to foster in their students: curiosity and hard work. He’s able to humble himself in front of his guests when clarification is needed. Earlier this week, Michael Scott Moore, a man held captive for over two years by Somali pirates, sat down for a 90-minute conversation on the show. About 15 minutes in, he used the word “bulwark,” and Rogan interrupted to ask for a definition. Moore balked a little, but answered, and moved along.
To anyone besides an outright language nerd, this exchange probably went unnoticed, but listening to the show on my living room couch, I shouted for joy. One thing my students will all attest to is my insistence on looking up definitions to words they don’t know, whether while reading silently or writing something of their own. It sounds obvious, but it bears repeating. Privately, kids would have no problem asking what “bulwark” means, but during a discussion in front of their peers? Forget about it. Unfortunately, and for whatever reason, not knowing the meaning of a word is viewed among many students as a sign of stupidity. Obviously, it isn’t. And because he’s not a ninth-grader concerned with social status, Rogan embraces what he doesn’t know, unapologetically asking questions to learn from fascinating people.
In addition to being curious, Rogan is also freakishly hard-working. In short, he’s conscientious, and often speaks about how different forms of martial arts impress discipline upon their students. Obviously, I won’t be asking any of my students to step into the octagon and take punches this fall, but try to understand how Rogan’s attitude towards physical activity bleeds into his intellectual life. Just like fighters, hard-working learners go beyond the bare minimum and refuse to quit if, for example, the meaning of a passage isn’t immediately apparent. They read until the information is understood. Above all, they take their learning seriously.
Rogan provides us with yet another great example of this. Take his conversation with James Damore last September as a case in point. During their conversation, Rogan discussed the infamous Google memo Damore wrote in 2017, which many an op-ed writer said promoted “harmful gender stereotypes.” Instead of joining in the hysteria, Rogan demonstrated some intellectual discipline and reread the document several times. What he found was that some journalists had failed, willfully or otherwise, to read Damore’s words carefully (or at all) before skewering him in the press. I can’t help but applaud basic critical reading when I see it, especially if it helps clear the name of a dishonestly persecuted Google employee.
So if you plan to use podcasts in your classroom this year, exercise discretion. I’ll say it one more time: Some of Rogan’s content is objectionable and inappropriate for high schoolers. Don’t use it. If you don’t enjoy his style, then branch out. Even the pickiest students will be able to find a show that focuses on a subject matter of interest to them.
At the end of the day, podcasts won’t make a difference in the classroom unless they’re used in serious ways by thoughtful, caring educators. And while they certainly won’t cure everything, maybe when contentious topics arise in class this year, we’ll at least be able to hear ourselves talk.
Michael O’Keefe is a boarding school English teacher and football coach. A native New Englander, he has worked in both northeast Ohio and the Mid-Atlantic region for the last five years.
