Bill O’Reilly, bestselling author and former Fox News host, just released his new book United States of Trump: How the President Really Sees America. I met with O’Reilly at his home in New York last week for an extended Q&A to talk about his book, his relationship with President Trump, and the 2020 Democratic primary. We also discussed his views on the media, his opinion on Fox News since his departure in 2017, and “cancel culture.”
The interview has been edited and condensed.
You write that you’ve known Trump for 30 years and that your relationship informed your work on this book. What’s your relationship with the president like now?
O’Reilly: There isn’t really a consistency to it. When he calls me, which is once in a while, we have a conversation about whatever he wants to talk about. I never call him, ever. I’m not and I never have been a person that curries favor. I have access to him when I need it. If I have a question, it gets answered. But my relationship with him, I would say, would be mostly business at this point. So, I think that he respects me, and he knows I’m honest, and he knows I’m tough and I’m not gonna, you know, pull back if I think he’s doing something wrong.
He still occasionally calls you?
O’Reilly: That’s what he does. And I always give it [the phone] to my son [Laughing]. So, yeah, he likes the trappings of the job. He likes the respect that obviously goes with the office and, you know, when people say he’s not going to run [for a second term], I go, this is the optimum of his life.
I’ve said this to other people who also know him somewhat personally. I think he’s a little weird. Do you think he’s weird?
O’Reilly: I don’t look at him like that. … I know thousands of people that I actually deal with, way more than the average bear. Okay? And when I went to a [baseball] game with Trump or was in his proximity, nothing that he ever did seemed strange to me, ever. Now, he’s a rich guy. Rich guys are different than most people. He has a sense of entitlement. He can do whatever he wants to do and he gets instant gratification. That’s different from most people, but is it weird? Not to me, because I understand his circumstance and that’s what I brought to the book. But he is a linear thinker. He’s a logical thinker. You’ll notice in the book that we spend some time in the beginning of the book on what should his [reelection campaign] slogan be. His new slogan. And I said, “Keep America Great.”
That is his reelection campaign slogan, so are you taking credit for that?
O’Reilly: Not really.
A little bit of credit?
O’Reilly: That’s what happened. Now his slogan is “Keep America Great” because he understands how I think and I said you have to move it along, alright? Now, I would have done that for Hillary Clinton. I would have done that for Joe Biden.
Race is always a big issue with the media’s coverage of Trump and it goes back to the birther issue with Barack Obama. You write in your book that his reasoning behind that was not about race but it was a strategy to distinguish himself among other Republicans as the most anti-Obama candidate.
In my opinion, he couldn’t care less if Barack Obama was born in Hawaii or Antarctica. He doesn’t process things like that. He doesn’t think about Barack Obama, he never does. Unless you’re in his orbit where he’s seeing you, he’s not thinking about you. That’s something that people don’t understand about Donald Trump, that his thought process is centered on the immediate, the immediacy. So, he doesn’t care how Barack Obama was raised or where he was born or anything like that. He figured out a lot of people didn’t like Barack Obama so he’s going to get on that train and it helped him. That’s why, in my opinion, he did it. Nothing to do with race, nothing to do with skin color. Donald Trump couldn’t care less about skin color. The guy doesn’t even think about it.
When Donald Trump first came onto the scene for the 2016 campaign, and people really started paying attention to his rallies and what he had to say, I thought he was a lot like you. Some people called him “The Fox News Candidate” but I thought he was more like you than anyone else in the media.
O’Reilly: Well, he used to watch my show every night and I think he adopted some of my mannerisms in the sense of confrontation. I don’t think there’s any question about that. At first, the media thought he was a clown. I never did. I didn’t think he would win but I knew he was a smart man. CNN and MSNBC were condescending but they would use him, they would put him on.
A lot of the media are still apologizing for what they think was their role in helping Trump get the 2017 Republican nomination, CNN chief Jeff Zucker in particular.
O’Reilly: So here’s a guy running for president that’s obviously gaining momentum and gaining attention. Why wouldn’t you put him on? Why wouldn’t you cover his rally when he’s uncensored and saying all of these … What else do you have to put in that’s better than that? He’s running for president. He might win. So that’s all a bunch of garbage. What Zucker and the other zealots, ideological people are angry about is, Trump turned the tables on them. Trump outfoxed them. That’s what he’s [Zucker] mad about. So, it’s what they call buyer’s remorse. They bought into the Trump rallies, they bought into the Trump traveling circus, and he won and they don’t like that. He totally outsmarted them.
You interviewed Trump for a few hours for your book. Do you think he’s honest and completely forthcoming when he says “no collusion, no obstruction”?
O’Reilly: Well, I can tell you that Donald Trump does not believe that he did anything wrong vis-à-vis the Russia collusion story. So, he believes that he did nothing wrong. And secondly, I know for my reportorial efforts that there was no backroom plan to incorporate Russia to help the Trump campaign defeat Hillary Clinton. That did not exist. And it goes against — Donald Trump does not really operate that way. That’s not what he does. And that was one of the reasons that me writing the book was important because I can tell, knowing him for so long, what’s B.S., and what isn’t just on the surface. Then I have to delve underneath. He’s a manipulative man but he’s not a devious man and there’s a difference. And he was genuinely outraged and appalled that he was attacked like he was over this Russia thing.
Let’s talk about 2020. What happened to Beto O’Rourke? He was the media guy until he wasn’t.
O’Reilly: He’s an irresponsible, shallow thinker. Anybody that would support a man like Beto O’Rourke has got to look in the mirror and say, ‘Is that really what you want, somebody who would call somebody the most heinous names? Racist, misogynist, whatever it may be. Somebody who will accuse the president of the United States of inciting violence in El Paso.’ This is just irresponsible stuff. I have no respect for him at all. The way he’s conducted himself has been abysmal and he’s not going anywhere. He’s hurt himself. He will never be elected, in my opinion, to any [higher] office, ever.
I think O’Rourke bought into the media hype about himself. They said he was going to be the next Kennedy. RFK would be embarrassed. RFK’s a smart guy. Beto O’Rourke is not.
What about Pete Buttigieg?
O’Reilly: I like him. I think he’s sincere. He’s not a phony. I think that he’s got a future in Democratic politics. He’s in over his head now, but come on, he’s a small town mayor. Articulate, well-meaning, so he’s the kind of politician that I think the country needs. I don’t agree with him on some things but I don’t agree with most politicians on some things. But I think he’s sincere and I think he has a future.
#MeToo is still a factor in politics and Joe Biden ran into it early in his campaign.
O’Reilly: I don’t think that will be an issue in the presidential campaign. I think #MeToo has pretty much lost momentum. The Kavanaugh thing really hurt that movement and what we saw this week [the New York Times‘ report] was almost the final nail in it. It’s a fractured movement now.
In my forthcoming book Privilged Victims: How America’s Culture Fascists Hijacked the Country and Elevated Its Worst People, I talk about #MeToo and how it has grown into something toxic. There was no widely recognized #MeToo movement when you were forced out of Fox for the allegations and settlements related to sexual misconduct.
O’Reilly: I’m not going to comment on my situation, because I made a decision that I would never be treated fairly by the media, ever, under any circumstances. I have good attorneys and we have taken a number of things to court and we have won. And that’s all I’m going to say.
I think the outcome of your situation would have been different had it taken place after the Brett Kavanaugh hearings. Do you think that’s true?
O’Reilly: No, because the press has not changed. You saw that with the Kavanaugh thing this week. They ran with it all day long. MSNBC and CNN, New York Times, whatever it may be, ran with it. Then when it all came apart, yeah, okay, that was it. And everyone in this country knows if you are accused, you are guilty. That’s it. You don’t get due process in the court of public opinion or in the media. You’re accused, you’re done. This is really a problem in this country right now. Our statement was pretty clear when I left Fox News that I committed no wrong doing. I mistreated no one. I took five people from Fox News with me, four women to BillOReilly.com. My assistant for 27 years is a woman. It was insane and there is nothing I can do about it. I cannot right the wrong. I have to accept that.
Do you deny that you had sexual relationships with any of the women who accused you of misconduct?
O’Reilly: I’m not going to talk about it. Because once I start to talk about it, it opens it up again. And then it’s a he said, she said, and it’s not worth my while to talk about it at all.
What do you make of so-called cancel culture where celebrities and high profile people are losing their jobs and reputations over something they say or something they said years and years ago?
O’Reilly: Corporate America has to make a decision that they’re either going to have due process or they’re not. And right now they’ve made the decision that they’re not. It’s as simple as that. Corporations are doing this.
What do you make of Fox News now?
The brand is still very strong. There’s nowhere else for people who are Trump supporters to go. It’s not as bold as it was when I was there. I think that a lot of these attacks have worked, the boycotts and all of that. I think they’ve inhibited the operation to some extent. But it’s still a strong entity in America.
