Depending on who you ask, the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia are either making slow but steady progress or are floundering.

Mykhailo Podolyak, Kyiv’s lead negotiator, has described the diplomacy with Moscow as a “real negotiation,” where the parties are actually trying to work through their many differences. Secretary of State Antony Blinken has taken a more skeptical tone, saying that he “had not seen anything that suggests … this is moving forward in an effective way.”