“It is incredibly important to have leaders who can not only talk about it, but have experience with it,” said Stacey Abrams last week, spinning her personal debt as an asset rather than a liability for a political hopeful.

Abrams is the Democratic nominee for governor in Georgia. She’s also more than $227,000 in debt. The steep sum stems from credit card and student loan debt, in addition to back taxes. As of late 2017, the average American household carried around $137,000 of debt, with $16,883 in credit card debt and $50,626 in student loans. Abrams, by comparison, is in $77,500 of credit card debt and $96,000 of student loan debt, per her own calculations.