Clete Willems, a former senior adviser to President Trump on international trade and economic policy, left the White House in June to join Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld, Washington, D.C.’s biggest lobbying shop.
Willems, 40, a graduate of Notre Dame and Georgetown Law, now has broad experience in trade policy. Previously, he worked at the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative all through the Obama administration as a career attorney. He got his start in politics as a driver for Paul Ryan, the Wisconsin Republican and former speaker of the House, eventually serving as his legislative director.
Willems recently sat down with the Washington Examiner to discuss the prospects for trade policy — he thinks that Trump’s U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement is the “best deal that a Democrat is ever going to get” and that Speaker Nancy Pelosi should and does want to advance it — and also his personal life at the White House (he maintained his cycling habit while there).
The interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Washington Examiner: What are your thoughts on the China trade war during the Obama era vs. the Trump era and the current Chinese sentiment?
Clete Willems: I think Elizabeth Warren, in some ways, will be more difficult for the Chinese to deal with because she’s going to be just as focused on human rights, environmental issues, labor issues, as she is on these big trade issues. It would be a mistake for China to simply try to wait out this president to get a better deal. Because, you know, No. 1, I think as long as the economy remains strong, he has a very good chance of getting reelected. But No. 2, if Elizabeth Warren, for example, were to become president, she is not going to be suddenly willing to give China a break on these issues, and in many ways will be, I think, as tough as this president. And the point there is that it isn’t in their interest to just try to wait us out. Yeah, this is a real thing, the [conflict with China] it’s bipartisan — it’s not going away.
WEX: Have [the Chinese] suggested that they might be trying to wait Trump out? Or is that something that you have heard?
C.W.: I know for a fact that, basically, they were waiting for the 2018 midterm congressional elections to occur. They thought that because President Trump and the Republican Party would lose control of the House and might even lose the Senate — they thought that President Trump would be weaker, and they would have found it easier to get a deal. And obviously, that turned out not to be the case. And again, I think China unfortunately misread the political situation in the United States and didn’t realize the Democrats are going to want to be just as hard on China as the Republicans. So that already happened. There is now a lot of chatter, that China may be thinking, ‘Okay, well, let’s just get through 2020. And then we can deal with the new person.’ And my point is, I think that’d be a mistake.
WEX: I was curious about what you feel can be improved upon in terms of the Trump administration as they are dealing with trade and how they could be more effective at reaching their goals?
C.W.: I mean, the first is I think that there’s been too much of a focus on trade deficits. In and of themselves, I think that some trade deficits, such as the deficit with China, relates to a lot of their unfair trade practices. And you can get at the problems with China without overly being focused on trade deficits because trade deficits are a result of a lot of different issues, some of which we can control, some of which we can’t. And so I think just overly emphasizing trade deficits isn’t something that I would recommend.
And one argument that I’ve made — that again, ultimately wasn’t a winner [in the White House] — was, look, we have a trade deficit with a lot of countries because we’re a wealthy country that has a lot of money and is able to buy things. And that’s okay, that’s a good thing. And so, you know, you want to prevent these things from getting out of control on a systemic basis. But I think there’s been a little bit too much of an emphasis on trade deficits.
WEX: How do you think one could get to an actual result and have some sort of execution on the China trade deal?
C.W.: I can tell you, as a negotiator of that deal, it’s very frustrating to me that we haven’t yet gotten across the finish line … This has never been about keeping China’s economy down. The way that the president sees this is that U.S. companies should have a level playing field; they should have the opportunity to compete on fair terms. And, you know, China’s economic growth can be good for everyone. But it just can’t promote economic growth in a way that discriminates against our companies and uses unfair subsidies and things like that. I wish that understanding could be better promoted in China. So that China would then have the political space to see that this is a mutually beneficial deal. And then we could come to terms close along the lines of where we were in April and May.
And so again, my answer to you is, I’m very frustrated because substantively, we’re close. But the politics, we just haven’t been able to manage those politics. And we’ve gotten distracted by a whole bunch of other things since May.
WEX: Trump talks a lot about how the U.S. has much greater leverage and that the U.S. is kind of dominant in the hierarchy and that China needs the U.S. more than we need them. Thoughts on his messaging?
C.W.: Well, I think that’s true. I mean, maybe he doesn’t need to say it as much as he does. But I do think that that’s true. I mean, I think, ultimately, you know, the U.S. economy is big, it’s stronger at the moment. And the U.S. administration has always seen that as a source of leverage. That said, I don’t know that you want to continually emphasize that in order to get a deal. I think that, again, the president has tried to sort of make clear to China that this isn’t about keeping them down. And I think that needs to be repeated.
WEX: On the personal front, I just wanted to ask if there are any unusual or eccentric hobbies or passions that you have?
C.W.: When I’m not spending time with my family or working, I love, I’m a huge cyclist … I race bikes on the weekend. I have a team I race with called RedShift racing. And I race competitively in the D.C. area. I won a race. It was about a 50-mile race. D.C., though, more broadly has a fantastic biking community. So I ride, you know, every weekend with my team and with a bunch of professionals who get out there on a bike. Saturday mornings, I get out there and crush it. I also used to ride my bike to the White House.
WEX: Is there much of a biking culture in the White House?
C.W.: There is, actually. So [Director of the Office of Trade and Manufacturing Policy] Peter Navarro also used to ride his bike to work. And, you know, even if we had slightly different views on certain trade issues, we always agreed on the importance of cycling.
WEX: Have you ever taken a bike ride with the president or talked to him about cycling?
C.W.: I haven’t. I did talk to him about Akin Gump though. When I told him I was leaving the White House, and he asked me where I was going, I said, “Akin Gump.” He said, “That’s a good one.” I think he’s had an experience at the law firm in the past, and he immediately recognized them as a great law firm.
