During his campaign, Joe Biden sat down with National Education Association President Lily Eskelsen Garcia to talk education reform. Garcia explained that NEA members (who include Jill Biden) have been pushing back against “very misguided school reforms — like charter schools.” She frames education reform as a zero-sum game that pits charter schools against public schools (never mind that charter schools are public).

The NEA, the nation’s largest teachers union, represents a significant political force. So naturally, when Garcia prompted, “You know how we feel about charter schools,” Biden responded, “Same way I feel.” Next, he listed off a few talking points about holding charter schools accountable to the same standards as public schools.